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Thread: The PoLR Thread

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetani View Post
    3w4 sx/so
    Alright... makes sense, maybe.


    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I see that the thread moved away to different topics but still...

    Let's say MBTI(Functionx) = Orange and Socionics(Functionx)=Tangerine... That would not be a global difference... Had the latter been=Apple, pear, banana etc. for instance, that would be a global\major difference...
    Now tell me how you decide when two categories are not similar enough anymore.


    I meant the description (and the avatar therein) refers to INFp as some kind of spendthrift...bourgeois would be a better word perhaps...
    That's just some trait. It doesn't directly come from the Model-A functions. Don't reject the entire type (for your typing) based on something like this.


    INFJs already have Ti in their stack infinity- ...
    I'm not sure why you're referring to Ti here? Tell me?


    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    This rather feels like a dichotomy between Republicans and Democrats rather than Aristocrats...perhaps the author was wary of drawing wrath of Republicans?
    LOL Russian Republicans, you mean? Though I don't know how literal the translation is.

    Collectivism isn't a bad word for it I think..?

  2. #62
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    This rather feels like a dichotomy between Republicans and Democrats rather than Aristocrats...perhaps the author was wary of drawing wrath of Republicans?

    Edit: Given that he was Russian, that wouldn't hold water though...

    What he was going after may be the dichotomy between "collectivism and individualism" though... I side more with collectivism to be honest but I am not on the extreme end... I'll read more into it...
    Aristocratic individuals base people on the stereotype of their groups.
    Democratic individuals base people on their own innate characteristics.

    The Aristocratic Quadras are Beta and Delta (Meaning that all STs and NFs are aristocratic)
    The Democratic Quadras are Alpha and Gamma (Meaning that all NTs and SFs are democratic)

    In Theory.

  3. #63
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    My own PoLR dilemma:

    Fe PoLR:
    1. I don't watch what I say whatsoever, and get surprised when people get offended by what I say. I usually respond with "How on earth could that have possibly been offensive?" in all seriousness, driving the person to become even more offended.
    2. (This could easily be NTR) I cuss like a sailor everywhere I go, and I have to consciously exert effort to control it in front of people, and it is impossible for me to understand how the simple saying of a cuss word could possibly offend someone if it is being used indirectly. It makes no god damn sense and it pisses me off.
    3. I never think about the repercussions events will have on other's emotional well-being, except when they directly tell me that this will hurt their feelings, in which case I still respond "Why?".

    Si PoLR:
    1. No sense of aesthetics whatsoever.
    2. Hygiene related tasks have to be made with a conscious effort, I absolutely abhor it when people make a comment about my body, but can never seem to fix it (super-ego definite?).
    3. No sense of style, I just wear things that are comfortable or even useful.
    Haha so it's hard for you too! To decide between Role and PoLR functions. ;p

    Do you ever try to fix the hygiene related issues, at least for a short time period?

    I kind of get the "vibe" that you're Fe PoLR > Si PoLR. If for nothing more that you used the expression "conscious effort" for Si and not for Fe. You just seem totally baffled at F stuff. Btw the Fe PoLR and Fi PoLR, they're somewhat reminiscent of each other really. How would you define the difference succinctly?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    My own PoLR dilemma:

    Fe PoLR:
    1. I don't watch what I say whatsoever, and get surprised when people get offended by what I say. I usually respond with "How on earth could that have possibly been offensive?" in all seriousness, driving the person to become even more offended.
    2. (This could easily be NTR) I cuss like a sailor everywhere I go, and I have to consciously exert effort to control it in front of people, and it is impossible for me to understand how the simple saying of a cuss word could possibly offend someone if it is being used indirectly. It makes no god damn sense and it pisses me off.
    3. I never think about the repercussions events will have on other's emotional well-being, except when they directly tell me that this will hurt their feelings, in which case I still respond "Why?".

    Si PoLR:
    1. No sense of aesthetics whatsoever.
    2. Hygiene related tasks have to be made with a conscious effort, I absolutely abhor it when people make a comment about my body, but can never seem to fix it (super-ego definite?).
    3. No sense of style, I just wear things that are comfortable or even useful.
    Interesting. This is a bit off-topic, but how would you say you relate to Fi as a potential hidden agenda?

  6. #66
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Alright... makes sense, maybe.

    Now tell me how you decide when two categories are not similar enough anymore.
    I have a better idea... How about you tell me how you decide that?

    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    I'm not sure why you're referring to Ti here? Tell me?
    No I won't...

    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    LOL Russian Republicans, you mean? Though I don't know how literal the translation is.

    Collectivism isn't a bad word for it I think..?
    Yeah that was silly of me... The brighter side to it is that this is thefirst time we agree on something I guess...

  7. #67
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Haha so it's hard for you too! To decide between Role and PoLR functions. ;p

    Do you ever try to fix the hygiene related issues, at least for a short time period?

    I kind of get the "vibe" that you're Fe PoLR > Si PoLR. If for nothing more that you used the expression "conscious effort" for Si and not for Fe. You just seem totally baffled at F stuff. Btw the Fe PoLR and Fi PoLR, they're somewhat reminiscent of each other really. How would you define the difference succinctly?
    You'd probably have to ask @edchidna1000, he is a lot more qualified than me at Socionics explanations, but I would take a gander and say that Fi PoLR creates a problem in determining one's own stance with others, whether someone is directly friend or foe. (Though this might also be true of an Fi Hidden Agenda type such as the ILI due to the fact that it isn't that much stronger, but it would be more obvious for the ILE)

  8. #68
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    Interesting. This is a bit off-topic, but how would you say you relate to Fi as a potential hidden agenda?
    When I first got into Socionics, I read Ganin's take of the HA and though that I was an Fe HA, with the need to be loved, but I realize now that my problem is that I want to love but find myself unable to express my love for others in a socially acceptable way. Cone on 16types did a whole thread based on the differences of the ILI and LII, and in that thread he discussed that sometimes ILIs often mistake themselves for ILEs for the whole "wanting to be loved" aspect of the HA, when in fact ILIs want to be able to love others without being "rejected" I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Aristocratic individuals base people on the stereotype of their groups.
    Democratic individuals base people on their own innate characteristics.

    The Aristocratic Quadras are Beta and Delta (Meaning that all STs and NFs are aristocratic)
    The Democratic Quadras are Alpha and Gamma (Meaning that all NTs and SFs are democratic)

    In Theory.
    Well that's one reason why I wasn't sure about Beta. The question here is, what's meant by characteristics. I get a different sense of each people, this is rather vague, it's not a judgment but a perception, but anyway it's different for everyone who I've had contact with over a longer time period. (Sometimes I can put the perception into words but in a really simplistic way so it's no good.) For total strangers, I just look at their physical characteristics and I do categorize based on that readily. But other than that, I don't really think a lot about the topic of categorizing people. I guess they just exist but I don't think much about them beyond that. And, I actually don't use stereotypes at all when actually interacting with someone who I've took an interest in. They are looked at as individuals, no categories, no stereotypes. Also, I believe in individualism...


    Quote Originally Posted by Vetani View Post
    Thanks. I relate to that first post eerily well. Well except this statement: "I did so by forcing myself to not hate or dislike people, in the manner that I described above". I didn't have to force that, it's always been like that with me. How about you? Do you relate to all of that stuff as described in that post you linked?

    You got a good link for Ne PoLR too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I have a better idea... How about you tell me how you decide that?
    Hahaha. Well a simple word: reductionism. I break stuff down into its elements, build up everything from the bottom and that's how I decide what to think about a category's "goodness"/"badness". Categories, concepts, everything, how to handle them, how to fit them into a system. According to this analysis, I didn't find the socionics and MBTI functions to be similar enough. They aren't oranges and tangerines, though they aren't oranges and apples either.


    No I won't...
    Now why the hell not?


    Yeah that was silly of me... The brighter side to it is that this is thefirst time we agree on something I guess...
    Lol.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    You'd probably have to ask @edchidna1000, he is a lot more qualified than me at Socionics explanations, but I would take a gander and say that Fi PoLR creates a problem in determining one's own stance with others, whether someone is directly friend or foe. (Though this might also be true of an Fi Hidden Agenda type such as the ILI due to the fact that it isn't that much stronger, but it would be more obvious for the ILE)
    I get that but everything you described about Fe PoLR above isn't really much emphasizing Fi over Fe. It just sounded like a weak F function to me. Why is it Fe specifically in your opinion?

    And, I assume ILI would still care about deciding these stances while ILE would have a harder time paying attention to that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    When I first got into Socionics, I read Ganin's take of the HA and though that I was an Fe HA, with the need to be loved, but I realize now that my problem is that I want to love but find myself unable to express my love for others in a socially acceptable way. Cone on 16types did a whole thread based on the differences of the ILI and LII, and in that thread he discussed that sometimes ILIs often mistake themselves for ILEs for the whole "wanting to be loved" aspect of the HA, when in fact ILIs want to be able to love others without being "rejected" I guess.
    I dunno this isn't telling me enough specifics on whether you value Fi over Fe or not. So how do you relate to Fi, do you care about determining your stances towards others much? Btw I'm not questioning your type, just curious to understand better.

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