User Tag List

First 41213141516 Last

Results 131 to 140 of 237

Thread: The PoLR Thread

  1. #131
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    Perhaps it will place it in context for @yeghor when he reads this.

    Socionics Model A



    edit:
    One has to keep in mind that the MBTI's 3rd function maps to the 6th and the 4th (MBTI) function maps to the 5th function in socionics. So the 4th function seen in socionics is not the 4th in MBTI.

    MBTI strong/weak/strong/weak. Socionics strong/weak/weak/strong.

    Socionics, 2 rings of functions, conscience (strong/weak), unconscience (weak/strong).
    Expanding on this:
    Ring 1 (conscience) (2 strong functions, 2 weak functions), Ring 2 unconscience (2 weak functions, 2 strong functions)

    You beat me to it:
    @Alea_iacta_est

    INxj's think the world is bad because people are too concerned with material things, doing things in the immediate physical reality, and that people are too aggressive and demanding, instead of being concerned with what could be possible under certain circumstances, complex metaphors and analogies (and finding meaning), and looking at both sides of an issue (instead of the issue at face value).
    ^I identify with this completely.

    IxFp's think the world is bad because people are too concerned with gathering knowledge and evidence, being objective and impartial, and because people rely on others' knowledge or second-hand knowledge instead of their own, instead of being concerned with fostering a group atmosphere, sharing emotions, and relating things to personal experience.
    I don't identify with ^this cause I am pro-knowledge and not necessarily pro-sharing emotions. I am pro-fostering group atmosphere though.

    So I identify with INxj in socionics for starters:

    I'll try to fill in my MBTI functions as per the Model A table:

    Leading function : Ni

    Creative function : Fe

    Role function : Te

    Vulnerable function : Se

    Suggestive function : Ti

    Mobilizing function : Si

    Ignoring function : Ne

    Demonstrative function : Fi

    What does this make me? Based on your interpretation, I am inferior in Te, and my shadow tertiary is Se making my tertiary Si. INFP. However, I don't identify with descriptions of INFP in MBTI or INFp in socionics.

    Anyway, what causes extreme irritation in me is Se, which fits with INxj PoLR description.

    I think I am drawn to MBTI ISTP women by the way. Does that explain my suggestive function being Ti?

    Based on my function order above here's how it compares to archetype and MBTI correlation:

    Lead Function -> Hero Archetype/Dominant Function (OK)
    Creative Function -> Parent Archetype/Auxiliary Function (OK)
    Role Function -> Daemon Archetype/Shadow Inferior Function (Shadow Tertiary-Trickster..what gets us in trouble?)
    Vulnerable Function -> Trickster Archetype/Shadow Tertiary Function (Inferior-Anima..what we crave for in opposite sex?)
    Suggestive Function -> Anima/Animus Archetype/Inferior Function (Tertiary-Child..when we are naughty?)
    Mobilizing Function -> Child Archetype/Tertiary Function (Shadow Inferior-Daemon..what haunts us?)
    Ignoring Function -> Antihero Archetype/Shadow Dominant Function (OK)
    Demonstrative -> Critical Parent Archetype/Shadow Auxiliary Function (OK)

    Where do those correlations between model A and archetypes and MBTI functions come from? Do they check out?

    Can you do the same for yourself and see how it fits?

  2. #132
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    You beat me to it:
    @Alea_iacta_est



    ^I identify with this completely.



    I don't identify with ^this cause I am pro-knowledge and not necessarily pro-sharing emotions. I am pro-fostering group atmosphere though.

    So I identify with INxj in socionics for starters:

    I'll try to fill in my MBTI functions as per the Model A table:

    Leading function : Ni

    Creative function : Fe

    Role function : Te

    Vulnerable function : Se

    Suggestive function : Ti

    Mobilizing function : Si

    Ignoring function : Ne

    Demonstrative function : Fi

    What does this make me? Based on your interpretation, I am inferior in Te, and my shadow tertiary is Se making my tertiary Si. INFP. However, I don't identify with descriptions of INFP in MBTI or INFp in socionics.

    Anyway, what causes extreme irritation in me is Se, which fits with INxj PoLR description.

    I think I am drawn to MBTI ISTP women by the way. Does that explain my suggestive function being Ti?

    Based on my function order above here's how it compares to archetype and MBTI correlation:

    Lead Function -> Hero Archetype/Dominant Function (OK)
    Creative Function -> Parent Archetype/Auxiliary Function (OK)
    Role Function -> Daemon Archetype/Shadow Inferior Function (Shadow Tertiary-Trickster..what gets us in trouble?)
    Vulnerable Function -> Trickster Archetype/Shadow Tertiary Function (Inferior-Anima..what we crave for in opposite sex?)
    Suggestive Function -> Anima/Animus Archetype/Inferior Function (Tertiary-Child..when we are naughty?)
    Mobilizing Function -> Child Archetype/Tertiary Function (Shadow Inferior-Daemon..what haunts us?)
    Ignoring Function -> Antihero Archetype/Shadow Dominant Function (OK)
    Demonstrative -> Critical Parent Archetype/Shadow Auxiliary Function (OK)

    Where do those correlations between model A and archetypes and MBTI functions come from? Do they check out?

    Can you do the same for yourself and see how it fits?
    The correlations are from Beebe's Model of the Psyche and the Functions of Model A. They check out extremely surprisingly well, considering they originated in different systems in different places of the world.

    The Sociotype descriptions and MBTI descriptions are pointless in pinpointing your exact type, as they are based on character models rather than the actual function uses, so it is better to figure out the inner-workings of Model A (from basics to advanced).

    The Role function naturally falls into place with the Demonic Personality Complex (or Daemon), as it cuts you off from your dominant perspective and is recognized as a your basic elementary flaw. For INFp's, this is Si. For INFj's, this is Ti. Engaging this functions runs directly counter to the Lead Function, thus only the Lead or the Role can be truly "turned-on", "used", or "paid attention to" at one time.

    One Specific Example:
    INFp's naturally are in tune with the hypothetical dynamics of the environment, why things are happening or are based on woven perceptions explaining them, this is Introverted Intuition, but INFp's are not naturally in tune with and are somewhat bad with assessing the current, physical dynamics of the present environment, and due to the fact that Introverted Intuition and Introverted Sensation run counter to each other, the INFp can only do one at a time, canceling out the other. In other words, an INFp is the type to easily see the long-term consequences of actions in the present or explanations for things in the present, but are particularly bad at seeing immediate cause-effect and the dynamics right in front of their eyes, and when they engage in the Role Function, they are cut off from their lead, essentially what the Demon does to the Hero in Beebe's Model.

    The Lead and Role function run counter to each other. Only one can be used at the same time.
    The Creative and Vulnerable function run counter to each other. Only one can be used at the same time.
    The Ignoring and Suggestive function run counter to each other. Only one can be used at the same time. (Though these functions are unconscious and their calculations are generally mysterious and more influence you than you use them)
    The Demonstrative and Mobilizing function run counter to each other. Only one can be used at the same time. (Though these functions are unconscious and their calculations are generally mysterious and more influence you than you use them)

    If you truly believe that you are inferior Te, then you should look into Introverted Intuition as your Demonstrative Function, which is as powerful as the Lead Function (they are 4-dimensional functions), but is unvalued, unconscious, and is used to rationalize failures in PoLR Se or even mock and deride Se through its manifestation in society (people being too concerned with material things).

  3. #133
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The correlations are from Beebe's Model of the Psyche and the Functions of Model A. They check out extremely surprisingly well, considering they originated in different systems in different places of the world.
    So they are two separate systems but someone made a correlation between the two. Who and how? Is there a way to give the gist of each function in both systems and show how functions in the two systems correlate to each other?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The Sociotype descriptions and MBTI descriptions are pointless in pinpointing your exact type, as they are based on character models rather than the actual function uses, so it is better to figure out the inner-workings of Model A (from basics to advanced).
    Which came first? Did they first establish the types by identifying common patterns in people and then formed the functions (and the model) around that or the other way around? I mean, are type descriptions based on statistical observed real data (Te) or are they based on interpretation (simulation) of the mechanics of the model (Ti)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The Role function naturally falls into place with the Demonic Personality Complex (or Daemon), as it cuts you off from your dominant perspective and is recognized as a your basic elementary flaw. For INFp's, this is Si. For INFj's, this is Ti. Engaging this functions runs directly counter to the Lead Function, thus only the Lead or the Role can be truly "turned-on", "used", or "paid attention to" at one time.
    Naturally how? I've read that daemonic function leads to ego-death, it is the enemy of the dominant (hero) function, it undermines the hero. So how does that correlate to role function?

    The suggestive function is also called the dual-seeking function. The subject finds it difficult to be overwhelmed by this element, since it perfectly complements and drives the activity of the leading function. The more it is present in his daily life, the more he will naturally adapt to its presence (see dualization). They are easily entertained by this kind of information, and its sustained presence creates a soothing psychological effect. If someone experiences a deficiency of it in his environment, he may attempt to supply it himself, but become soon exhausted. Unlike the mobilizing function, concentrated and prolonged doses from other people are received positively (depending somewhat on the individual's degree of dualization).

    People focus deeply on the use of this function in day-to-day life, always attempting to digest information received from the environment through this aspect of reality. This is because it complements the leading function, making an individual not only more understanding but more satisfied about their pursuits in the Ego.
    This^ is clearly Ti for me, supplementing my Ni.

    The mobilizing function is also called the activating function and the hidden agenda function. Help in this element is appreciated, but past a certain point is seen as excessive. The subject is more comfortable using this function than the suggestive function but still can only use it sporadically. If he isn't careful and directs it at an individual who does not value it, he will likely meet a harsh response, since they are almost sure to see it as a puerile gesture (more so than when he uses the suggestive function, usage of which comes off as more mature and well-considered, since he takes it more seriously in the first place). The subject's innate lack of balance in the mobilizing function can easily cause him to indulge in it recklessly or to sorely neglect it. It is best used in support of the suggestive function. If too much of this element is ambient, the person will get bored or even become repelled. He sees it as a necessary part of good living, but not a primary life goal.
    I can't pinpoint this^ function in me but I cannot deal with Si I guess. One ISTJ coworker can recall information precisely from memory whereas I have to keep taking notes and making list externally so as to make information tangible and easy to recall later otherwise that information is easily replaced with something else. I am quite airheaded. So I think this is Si for me.

    When a person is actively using his base function, the role function is essentially turned off. The two cannot both be "on" at the same time, because they represent two opposing approaches to similar things. Because of this opposition, the more one gets carried away with one's base function, the more the role function is ignored or suppressed. People are generally somewhat aware of this suppression and perceive it as a personal weakness that needs to be "worked on" in order to meet other people's expectations and achieve something in society. It is typical for people to periodically work on their role function in order to correct imbalances in their life and improve their weak areas. However, these attempts are generally sporadic and are forgotten as soon as the perceived problem begins to go away and the person once again becomes carried away with their usual lifestyle which is dominated by their base function. Thus, development of the role function is more like patching up leaks than building a complete, self-sufficient structure. Often individuals wish they could build up their role function and become "supermen", but an excessive focus on this unreachable goal brings disappointment, because the base function always wins anyways.

    When people are criticized for their lack of attentiveness to their role function, they are often irritated because they are already well aware of the deficiency and have already tried and failed to correct it. When problems arise with the role function, energy flows away from the base function, the individual brings his usual activities to a halt, and tries to pick up all the tasks he had been neglecting. Directing energy through the base function is effortless; working with the role function requires effort and concentration. Thus, people's concept of self-development is often centered on development of the role function and the Super-Ego block in general.

    Compared to the vulnerable function, role function criticism is easier for a person to respond to or dismiss, since they believe that it has some value, in theory. The role function is triggered situationally, when individuals are met with situations that oppose their base aspect of reality. The base function only accepts information relating to its information aspect, and other information cannot be produced into new data with the creative function.
    Not exact fit but I'd like to have more Te abilities so I went with Te for this one.

    What I am wondering is what the conversion language is in correlating Bebee's arcehetypes with Socionics functions.

    In any case here's what I need to understand the issue:

    a) Model A function basic descriptions

    b) You identifying your functions for each description not based on what you know about the model but what you know about yourself (and the descriptions in table given above or function descriptions) to check whether it fits.

    c) Basis of conversion between Socionics function descriptions and MBTI function order.

    d) Basis of conversion between Socionics function descriptions and Beebe's archetypes.

    I'd appreciate as concise as possible responses.

  4. #134
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    If you truly believe that you are inferior Te, then you should look into Introverted Intuition as your Demonstrative Function, which is as powerful as the Lead Function (they are 4-dimensional functions), but is unvalued, unconscious, and is used to rationalize failures in PoLR Se or even mock and deride Se through its manifestation in society (people being too concerned with material things).
    I must've forgotten to edit it. According to your convention, I am inferior in Ti and my tertiary is Si. It doesn't fit with MBTI.

  5. #135
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    So they are two separate systems but someone made a correlation between the two. Who and how? Is there a way to give the gist of each function in both systems and show how functions in the two systems correlate to each other?



    Which came first? Did they first establish the types by identifying common patterns in people and then formed the functions (and the model) around that or the other way around? I mean, are type descriptions based on statistical observed real data (Te) or are they based on interpretation (simulation) of the mechanics of the model (Ti)?



    Naturally how? I've read that daemonic function leads to ego-death, it is the enemy of the dominant (hero) function, it undermines the hero. So how does that correlate to role function?



    This^ is clearly Ti for me, supplementing my Ni.



    I can't pinpoint this^ function in me but I cannot deal with Si I guess. One ISTJ coworker can recall information precisely from memory whereas I have to keep taking notes and making list externally so as to make information tangible and easy to recall later otherwise that information is easily replaced with something else. I am quite airheaded. So I think this is Si for me.



    Not exact fit but I'd like to have more Te abilities so I went with Te for this one.

    What I am wondering is what the conversion language is in correlating Bebee's arcehetypes with Socionics functions.

    In any case here's what I need to understand the issue:

    a) Model A function basic descriptions

    b) You identifying your functions for each description not based on what you know about the model but what you know about yourself (and the descriptions in table given above or function descriptions) to check whether it fits.

    c) Basis of conversion between Socionics function descriptions and MBTI function order.

    d) Basis of conversion between Socionics function descriptions and Beebe's archetypes.

    I'd appreciate as concise as possible responses.
    A) The Lead Function - That which you are best at and are always (for the most part) absorbed in. You are typically going to be using this function for the majority of your life, though you may actually not be able to pin-point it exactly due to the fact that you are so good at using the Lead function that tasks and things related to it seem entirely natural and regular.

    The Creative Function - That which you relay others the work and perspective of your lead function. This is how you relate your lead function to others and what you use to engage the environment primarily. It is focused on the world rather than the self, and is usually seen as a means to an end (it isn't revered so much like the Lead, think of it like a tool). Therefore, your primary focus for engaging this function is merely using it as a medium through which to spread your findings and thinking from your Lead Function.

    The Role Function - That which is your character flaw and downfall as a person. This function, when activated, siphons you off from your powerful Lead function through which you rely on and forces you to at least recognize it or face somewhat humiliating self-criticism. This function can be represented by the phrase "I am bad if I... [don't/fail to/neglect this]" (stolen from some Socion website I'll find later of the First 4 IM Elements of Model A). There is variation between how certain people deal with the Role Function however, which can range from compulsive attention to it when it arises to downright neglect. Any attempts to actually succeed at this function are short-lasted, as you will eventually return to your dominant perspective, deactivating this function.

    The Vulnerable Function - That which is loathed, abhorred, neglected, and completely ignored. Any criticism received to this area is taken with surprise and sting, as it is baffling that others even care or realize the implications of this function. This function is the way your Role Function relates to others and the world. This also usually represents the portion of society or humanity that you typically loathe (with regard to Role-Vulnerable mechanism, i.e. INFp's loathe Si in a Te way). Suspicions surround the information geared toward this function.

    The Suggestive Function - That which is desired, complementary, and welcomed. Where suspicions surround the information of the Vulnerable function, gullibility is a key feature of the Suggestive Function, as you tend to naturally be too trusting of its information, sense it complements the Dominant perspective and the fact that it is a relatively absent and weak function in a sociotype. In a phrase, this is "What you need more of" to succeed. (IxI's, for instance, need Se information and tasks to motivate them, meaning that the presence of any Se at all will generally be enough to motivate them to do something, though their own motivation is hard for them to produce on their own)

    The Mobilizing Function - That which "The World needs more of", that which is dear, lovable, and innocent (in a child-like sense). Unlike the Suggestive Function, which can't be produced on its own in the sociotype, this function inflates (just like the tertiary function) in the sociotype so that he or she may provide the world with that which he or she finds dear, lovable, and innocent. Unfortunately, you are typically going to be rather bad at it, and its inflation will make you look rather "pathetic" as Gainan refers to in what he calls the "Pathetic Hidden Agenda". Usually one assumes great confidence in this function despite being terrible at it (leading to Mobilizing-Lead confusion for mistyping). You specifically do not typically recognize that you are terrible at it though, but others will undoubtedly recognize your lack of ability in it along with your sense of superiority regarding this function. An example might be an ILE claiming that he is absurdly superior at comforting people, being a warm and kind person, being a "people-person" and other Fe-related traits, but actually being rather socially-awkward and tactless when it comes to dealing with emotions and people's feelings. This function is held dear, and it is thought that the world needs more of it.

    Ignoring Function - that which is obvious, trite, and unnecessary. Typically, the only time you will see this function is in a "I can do that too" kind of way. When others use this IM Element, you instinctively tend to attempt to show them that you can do it just as well as they can, but don't typically care for it or use it often. Any information received through here is taken as "obvious and unnecessary", as you are adept in it but don't think it is the right way to deal with things (instead choosing to deal with things through the Lead Perspective).

    Demonstrative Function - that which is more-so obvious than the ignoring function and what forms a major portion of your worldview, yet is cast aside as boring or dull when you are with others. This function is sort of like something you enjoy but don't want others to know that you actually somewhat enjoy, thus it often remains in your private life. It is typically going to be as strong as the Lead function or possibly stronger (it is also different in that where the Lead Function is your strongest Accepting function, your Demonstrative function is your strongest producing function, meaning that you will be able to use it somewhat better than those who have this function as their Creative Function, i.e. IEI's Fi might be stronger than IEE's Fi). You will also engage this function when bored, and use it as another means to express your Lead function through a different form.

    B) My Functions are that of the ILI's, you can't change Model A to fit certain functions, Model A represents the functions of each individual sociotype.

    ILI -

    Lead - Ni, Creative - Te
    Role - Si, Vulnerable - Fe
    Suggestive - Se, Mobilizing - Fi
    Ignoring - Ne, Demonstrative Ti

    And I often notice each of these functions in their positions in my own life.

    C/D) Function Stackings are the same but placed differently for different reasons (Socionics keeps the Consciously noticed functions on the first four, JCF keeps the Valued function on the first four). Shadow Functions are defined by Beebe's Model primarily as there is no other source that provides a better look into them. Beebe's Model is deceptively similar to that of Model A based on the simply mechanics of the functions. For instance, the inflation of the Mobilizing Function and The Child Archetype (The Tertiary Function), the relation of the dominant perspective to others of the Creative Function and The Parent Archetype (The Auxiliary Function), the cutting-off from the primary function and self-critism/pain seen with the Demonic Personality Complex Archetype and the Role Function, etc.

  6. #136
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I must've forgotten to edit it. According to your convention, I am inferior in Ti and my tertiary is Si. It doesn't fit with MBTI.
    Or you are simply basing it on your own relation and don't truly understand the system yet, as I am rather confident that you are Mobilizing Ti (One can mistake this as the function that one wants, but generally this has a "spread-your-own-wings approach" and generally is associated with more confidence).

    Also,

    Role Function -> Daemon Archetype/Shadow Inferior Function (Shadow Tertiary-Trickster..what gets us in trouble?)
    Vulnerable Function -> Trickster Archetype/Shadow Tertiary Function (Inferior-Anima..what we crave for in opposite sex?)
    Suggestive Function -> Anima/Animus Archetype/Inferior Function (Tertiary-Child..when we are naughty?)
    Mobilizing Function -> Child Archetype/Tertiary Function (Shadow Inferior-Daemon..what haunts us?)
    No. Those correlations are absurd and inane, and also probably the basis for your stupid relation to Ti Suggestive and Si Mobilizing. Learn the damn system.

  7. #137
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    A) The Lead Function - That which you are best at and are always (for the most part) absorbed in. You are typically going to be using this function for the majority of your life, though you may actually not be able to pin-point it exactly due to the fact that you are so good at using the Lead function that tasks and things related to it seem entirely natural and regular.
    This is Ni for me. I think this is not Ni but Ti for you by the way. Cause you are insistent on giving detailed information and this intense information is making my head hurt and feels like Ti stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The Creative Function - That which you relay others the work and perspective of your lead function. This is how you relate your lead function to others and what you use to engage the environment primarily. It is focused on the world rather than the self, and is usually seen as a means to an end (it isn't revered so much like the Lead, think of it like a tool). Therefore, your primary focus for engaging this function is merely using it as a medium through which to spread your findings and thinking from your Lead Function.
    This is Fe for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The Role Function - That which is your character flaw and downfall as a person. This function, when activated, siphons you off from your powerful Lead function through which you rely on and forces you to at least recognize it or face somewhat humiliating self-criticism. This function can be represented by the phrase "I am bad if I... [don't/fail to/neglect this]" (stolen from some Socion website I'll find later of the First 4 IM Elements of Model A). There is variation between how certain people deal with the Role Function however, which can range from compulsive attention to it when it arises to downright neglect. Any attempts to actually succeed at this function are short-lasted, as you will eventually return to your dominant perspective, deactivating this function.
    I don't feel humiliated by my Ti, I know its limitations but am content with it. I feel more humiliated by my weak Te. I seek out external information (Te) but I don't automatically accept it as true but rather try to analyze whether it makes sense to me. So I guess I prefer Ti over Te but refer to Te when in doubt or my Ti is bogged down. So I think this is Te for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The Vulnerable Function - That which is loathed, abhorred, neglected, and completely ignored. Any criticism received to this area is taken with surprise and sting, as it is baffling that others even care or realize the implications of this function. This function is the way your Role Function relates to others and the world. This also usually represents the portion of society or humanity that you typically loathe (with regard to Role-Vulnerable mechanism, i.e. INFp's loathe Si in a Te way). Suspicions surround the information geared toward this function.
    This is Se for me. The model says that I loathe Se in my role function way (which I believe is Te).

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The Suggestive Function - That which is desired, complementary, and welcomed. Where suspicions surround the information of the Vulnerable function, gullibility is a key feature of the Suggestive Function, as you tend to naturally be too trusting of its information, sense it complements the Dominant perspective and the fact that it is a relatively absent and weak function in a sociotype. In a phrase, this is "What you need more of" to succeed. (IxI's, for instance, need Se information and tasks to motivate them, meaning that the presence of any Se at all will generally be enough to motivate them to do something, though their own motivation is hard for them to produce on their own)
    This is Ti for me. I welcome other's laid out internal reasoning (Ti). I don't welcome commanding Te. I think I need more (personal rather than external) Te to succeed though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The Mobilizing Function - That which "The World needs more of", that which is dear, lovable, and innocent (in a child-like sense). Unlike the Suggestive Function, which can't be produced on its own in the sociotype, this function inflates (just like the tertiary function) in the sociotype so that he or she may provide the world with that which he or she finds dear, lovable, and innocent. Unfortunately, you are typically going to be rather bad at it, and its inflation will make you look rather "pathetic" as Gainan refers to in what he calls the "Pathetic Hidden Agenda". Usually one assumes great confidence in this function despite being terrible at it (leading to Mobilizing-Lead confusion for mistyping). You specifically do not typically recognize that you are terrible at it though, but others will undoubtedly recognize your lack of ability in it along with your sense of superiority regarding this function. An example might be an ILE claiming that he is absurdly superior at comforting people, being a warm and kind person, being a "people-person" and other Fe-related traits, but actually being rather socially-awkward and tactless when it comes to dealing with emotions and people's feelings. This function is held dear, and it is thought that the world needs more of it.
    Only Ti comes to my mind about this. I think I am good at Ti but I may not be. I don't find it lovable and innocent though. I think the world needs more Fe though. This is a very confusing description.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Ignoring Function - that which is obvious, trite, and unnecessary. Typically, the only time you will see this function is in a "I can do that too" kind of way. When others use this IM Element, you instinctively tend to attempt to show them that you can do it just as well as they can, but don't typically care for it or use it often. Any information received through here is taken as "obvious and unnecessary", as you are adept in it but don't think it is the right way to deal with things (instead choosing to deal with things through the Lead Perspective).
    This is Ne.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Demonstrative Function - that which is more-so obvious than the ignoring function and what forms a major portion of your worldview, yet is cast aside as boring or dull when you are with others. This function is sort of like something you enjoy but don't want others to know that you actually somewhat enjoy, thus it often remains in your private life. It is typically going to be as strong as the Lead function or possibly stronger (it is also different in that where the Lead Function is your strongest Accepting function, your Demonstrative function is your strongest producing function, meaning that you will be able to use it somewhat better than those who have this function as their Creative Function, i.e. IEI's Fi might be stronger than IEE's Fi). You will also engage this function when bored, and use it as another means to express your Lead function through a different form.
    Don't know. Ti perhaps.

    It would be good to know how the developers decided about the names to functions. I can see that ignoring functions is opposing personality archetype in that we use it to counter other people (or other negative things about ourselves) when they offend/threaten us. Why they are named as "creative, role, demonstrative, mobilizing, suggestive etc.?

    Does "suggestive" mean we are vulnerable to suggestions thru that function?

    Does "mobilizing" mean something that spurs us into action when we encounter it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    B) My Functions are that of the ILI's, you can't change Model A to fit certain functions, Model A represents the functions of each individual sociotype.

    ILI -

    Lead - Ni, Creative - Te
    Role - Si, Vulnerable - Fe
    Suggestive - Se, Mobilizing - Fi
    Ignoring - Ne, Demonstrative Ti

    And I often notice each of these functions in their positions in my own life.
    You are too accepting of the model though I wonder why I am so accepting of MBTI model OTOH. You seem to have memorized the system like a D&D rule book and are not questioning whether it's consistent within itself.

    Does MBTI function order make sense and why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Beebe's Model is deceptively similar to that of Model A based on the simply mechanics of the functions. For instance, the inflation of the Mobilizing Function and The Child Archetype (The Tertiary Function), the relation of the dominant perspective to others of the Creative Function and The Parent Archetype (The Auxiliary Function), the cutting-off from the primary function and self-critism/pain seen with the Demonic Personality Complex Archetype and the Role Function, etc.
    So you've formed those correlations yourself? What does child archetype do in Beebe's model? What does Mobilizing function do in Model A? How do they overlap? In simple words. Simplify the system rather than bogging it down in detail, that's what Ni does.

  8. #138
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    This is Ni for me. I think this is not Ni but Ti for you by the way. Cause you are insistent on giving detailed information and this intense information is making my head hurt and feels like Ti stuff.
    lol. This is Te. I'm relaying knowledge I have gathered and assimilated from learning the system. Socionics is a Ti-built system, it's supposed to do that. You are trying to type me with knowledge I am fucking handing you that I have interpreted and analyzed.

    I have realized that it is consistent with in itself. The problem is you don't think it is yet are at a position where you do not possess the same level of knowledge on the subject.

    Ni doesn't simply simplify, it explains the dynamics of things, how things fluidly work conceptually.

    You are Ti Mobilizing. It is painfully obvious.

    Almost as painful as your Te Vulnerable.

  9. #139
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,418

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Or you are simply basing it on your own relation and don't truly understand the system yet, as I am rather confident that you are Mobilizing Ti (One can mistake this as the function that one wants, but generally this has a "spread-your-own-wings approach" and generally is associated with more confidence).
    Spread your wings description feels like Ti. I feel I have to make my own decisions rather than relying on others. I want other people to be self-reliant too but I also want them to care for each other.

    No. Those correlations are absurd and inane, and also probably the basis for your stupid relation to Ti Suggestive and Si Mobilizing. Learn the damn system.
    Your auxiliary Ne is rearing it's head Alea. That's what causing you to make these deragatory remarks. Ne and Se represent impulsivity in individuals.

    You are right though but I am trying to learn the system, from you. You want me to memorize it though, which is not how I work.

    I'd love to read your enneagram result.

  10. #140
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Socionics
    ILI
    Posts
    1,838

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Spread your wings description feels like Ti. I feel I have to make my own decisions rather than relying on others. I want other people to be self-reliant too but I also want them to care for each other.



    Your auxiliary Ne is rearing it's head Alea. That's what causing you to make these deragatory remarks. Ne and Se represent impulsivity in individuals.

    You are right though but I am trying to learn the system, from you. You want me to memorize it though, which is not how I work.

    I'd love to read your enneagram result.
    LOL.

    P.S. You assume that criticizing your lack of understanding must be a form of impulsivity? I was being fairly kind.

    EDIT: I'm trying to get you to understand the system rather than blindly accept it, but your understanding veers from what the system implies.

Similar Threads

  1. [MBTItm] The haiku thread...
    By anii in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 01-22-2017, 11:03 PM
  2. The Beer Thread
    By Noel in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 309
    Last Post: 02-03-2010, 12:07 PM
  3. The GHOST thread
    By swordpath in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 03-14-2008, 08:47 AM
  4. The Hundredth Thread
    By Rajah in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-24-2007, 12:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO