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Thread: The PoLR Thread

  1. #101
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The problem lies in the fact that the only people who use actual JCF are typology forums, so whenever there is a MBTI correlation to another typology system, it is non-comparable to our situation due to the fact that their correlations concern how individuals test on dichotomy-based tests rather than cognitive function based test.

    I'm not sure I have enough energy to debate this further anyways, with @yeghor and me going at each others' throats since we apparently can't see eye to eye on each others' stances.
    I just think this is starting on wrong premises therefore wouldn't yield accurate results...

    I leave you to your own devices... I don't think I have anything further to contribute...

  2. #102
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I just think this is starting on wrong premises therefore wouldn't yield accurate results...

    I leave you to your own devices... I don't think I have anything further to contribute...
    Good. I find it absolutely hilarious how you attempt to undermine a system based on your premature understandings against a person who has devoted more time to understanding the system objectively rather than understanding based around the false assumption that the system must fit around your understanding.

    The majority of your argument consisted of non-sequiturs and provided no evidence to justify any of your actual claims other than faulty logical constructs. Then to suggest that I'm the one being close-minded when I have reviewed your argument and offered a counter-argument is almost insulting. It's essentially projection. I wish we could see on the same level.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The problem lies in the fact that the only people who use actual JCF are typology forums, so whenever there is a MBTI correlation to another typology system, it is non-comparable to our situation due to the fact that their correlations concern how individuals test on dichotomy-based tests rather than cognitive function based test.

    I'm not sure I have enough energy to debate this further anyways
    OK so what's an ISTJ SiTe (JCF) in socionics? You don't have to reply right now or right here. But when you get the energy to debate it again, I'd be interested.


    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I just think this is starting on wrong premises therefore wouldn't yield accurate results...

    I leave you to your own devices... I don't think I have anything further to contribute...
    Hey you're making me really curious about your socionics type. Open a socionics "type me" thread pretty please

  4. #104
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    OK so what's an ISTJ SiTe (JCF) in socionics? You don't have to reply right now or right here. But when you get the energy to debate it again, I'd be interested.
    An ISTJ would be correlated to the ISTp. This of course assumes that the ISTJ is theoretically a perfect example of the archetypal ISTJ rather than an individual who could be typed incorrectly.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    An ISTJ would be correlated to the ISTp. This of course assumes that the ISTJ is theoretically a perfect example of the archetypal ISTJ rather than an individual who could be typed incorrectly.
    The archetypal ISTJ (SiTe, JCF) matches the ISTj archetype much better in Socionics than the ISTp archetype.

  6. #106
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    The archetypal ISTJ (SiTe, JCF) matches the ISTj archetype much better in Socionics than the ISTp archetype.
    How so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    How so?
    Read the descriptions yet?

  8. #108
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Read the descriptions yet?
    So you are basing this on subjective reasoning? I'll do it, I just want to know if there is any form of objective evidence.

    I'll be using simulatedworld's JCF analysis of ISTJ and the Wikisocion description of the SLI and the LSI (sorry, forgot to include that one).

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    So you are basing this on subjective reasoning? I'll do it, I just want to know if there is any form of objective evidence.
    I don't think there is anything subjective about comparing two widely accepted descriptions of archetypes (one JCF, one Socionics). As long as there is no "reading between the lines" stuff, of course. That's the most objective evidence you will get in this case anyway.

  10. #110
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    I don't think there is anything subjective about comparing two widely accepted descriptions of archetypes (one JCF, one Socionics). As long as there is no "reading between the lines" stuff, of course. That's the most objective evidence you will get in this case anyway.
    I can see a case for the ISTJ being either one, but ultimately it seems that the misunderstanding arises from the ISTJ's Te and Ne. The SLI, for instance, clearly embodies the JCF ISTJ's preference for the familiar and the tangible as well as the moralistic stances indicative of teritary Fi, but the LSI seems to embody the "fastidious" qualities applied to the ISTJ along with the inferior Ne (placed in the PoLR) fear of ambiguity. Introverted Sensation easily carries over from the ISTJ to the SLI, and so does introverted feeling, but the LSI seems to have adopted the organized quality of Te through extroverted sensation, but this, too, is eliminated due to the MBTI ISTJ's lack of assertion and of a dominating personality that seems to make up the LSI's Ti-Se mechanism. The inferior Ne, however, seems to reflect better with the LSI's PoLR Ne on the topic of fearing ambiguity, but not really lining up with the positive integration of Ne coupled with Si to create a stronger lead/dominant that is seen in both the SLI and the MBTI ISTJ through the acceptance of multiple possibilities and abstractions.

    If I were to choose a direct correlation based on these sources, it would be ISTJ -> ISTp (SLI), but that of course is subjective understanding and is thus not based on empirical data.

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