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Thread: The PoLR Thread

  1. #91
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Well you're wrong. Both systems are loosely based off of Jung's Psychological Types and descriptions of the functions. The Ni dominant in MBTI (INFJ) is the same as the Ni lead in Socionics (INFp).
    Yeah where does it say to swith j and p?

  2. #92
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Yeah where does it say to swith j and p?
    Origins and Implications of the J/P switch (wikisocion)

    Some maintain that judging introverts in MBTI map to irrational ("perceiving") introverts in socionics, and perceiving introverts to rational ("judging") introverts, with extraverted types remaining the same. The rationale for this is based on an equivalence between the two theories' functional models. According to MBTI theory, the leading function of judging introvert is an introverted perceiving function (Si or Ni), while perceiving introverts' leading function is a judging function (Fi or Ti). Myers and Briggs maintained that introverts make contact with the world through their second, extraverted function, and decided to define judging or perceiving through the second function rather than the first, as in socionics. According to MBTI theory, if the 1st function is judging, then the 2nd is perceiving, and vice versa. For MBTI extraverts, it is the leading function that determines perceiving or judging.
    Therefore, if we look at the functional structure of an MBTI INFP, we actually see the functions of a socionics EII (or INFj):
    INFP = (1) introverted feeling, (2) extraverted intuition
    The official theoretical MBTI definition of J/P is thus identical in structure to the Dynamic/Static Reinin dichotomy, again on the assumption of functional equivalence. For example, an LII or "Ti Ne" which is classified as static (introvert*rational), would be expected to test as an INTP, whereas an ILE, which is extrovert*irrational, and predicted to test as ENTP, would be Static as well. In Socionics an LII (along with LSI, EII, and ESI) is commonly called a j type (lowercase is preferred) because it is rational, yet the term "static" applies nonetheless. The converse, that MBTI J corresponds to Dynamic, is implied as well.
    Can we please keep this thread on topic for PoLR instead of making it an analysis of the entire system?

  3. #93
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Dmitri Lytov reports[1] an experiment related to possible mappings between typologies, although it uses Keirsey type descriptions instead of MBTI results. In this experiment, 108 socionists were asked to read all Keirsey type descriptions and rate which Socionics type was being described. Although the main conclusion of the author was that the results simply demonstrated the lack of correlation between the typologies, the table of results could be viewed as mildly supportive of the J/P switch for IN-- Keirsey types, and not at all for IS-- Keirsey types.

    However, one must be warned against making overly firm conclusions from these data, because the evaluators tended to choose extroverted rather than introverted Socionics types when rating Keirsey INTJ descriptions: Far more socionists in the experiment typed the INTJ description as SLE or LIE rather than as LII or ILI. These results can only be called odd from the point of view of a correlation between Keirsey and socionics. The article, moreover, acknowledges that the study does not represent the definitive mapping between the typologies, and states the position that Keirsey typings are further from Socionics than MBTI typings.
    Just maintain a neutral stance when analyzing this...

  4. #94
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Just maintain a neutral stance when analyzing this...
    Those are Kiersey Types*. We work with JCF here, for if we worked with Keirsey types, everything would be a lot easier.

    *Old school E vs I, N vs S, T vs F, J vs P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Easily. The j/p switch for introverts. Keep the extroverted types the same.

    For example, INFj = INFP
    No. That's a loose heuristics.

    Assume there's an ISTP who tests ISTP by a dichotomy test and doesn't take a function test. Tests strong P in the official MBTI test (94 questions one, doesn't measure functions). Then same person tests as ISTp in socionics and discovers that he's indeed SiTe in that system. What gives?

    This I've actually seen as an example somewhere.

    There's no guarantee that someone who tests as an IxxP in an MBTI test will be an Ixxj in socionics.


    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Well you're wrong. Both systems are loosely based off of Jung's Psychological Types and descriptions of the functions. The Ni dominant in MBTI (INFJ) is the same as the Ni lead in Socionics (INFp).
    "Loosely" is key word.


    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Yeah where does it say to swith j and p?
    Nowhere officially

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Those are Kiersey Types*. We work with JCF here, for if we worked with Keirsey types, everything would be a lot easier.

    *Old school E vs I, N vs S, T vs F, J vs P
    Nonono. Dichotomies are official MBTI. The official MBTI test I've seen tests for those, not functions.

    (There's functions too, of course, mentioned on the official MBTI website.)

  7. #97
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Nonono. Dichotomies are official MBTI. The official MBTI test I've seen tests for those, not functions.
    Exactly. Therefore, people who are actually discovering their true psychological type through Jung's cognitive functions like we do here should have a much higher correlation with their actual Socionics type than with the dichotomy based testing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Can we please keep this thread on topic for PoLR instead of making it an analysis of the entire system?
    Well then tell me if I have Ne or Fi PoLR hahah... If you don't know then well I at least hope you liked the detailed descriptions (two pages back), even if one of them is just the Role function.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Exactly. Therefore, people who are actually discovering their true psychological type through Jung's cognitive functions like we do here should have a much higher correlation with their actual Socionics type than with the dichotomy based testing.
    Perhaps better but it still isn't quite 100%. But yeah, we should discuss this in a different thread.

  10. #100
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    Perhaps better but it still isn't quite 100%. But yeah, we should discuss this in a different thread.
    The problem lies in the fact that the only people who use actual JCF are typology forums, so whenever there is a MBTI correlation to another typology system, it is non-comparable to our situation due to the fact that their correlations concern how individuals test on dichotomy-based tests rather than cognitive function based test.

    I'm not sure I have enough energy to debate this further anyways, with @yeghor and me going at each others' throats since we apparently can't see eye to eye on each others' stances.

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