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Thread: The beta quadra

  1. #191
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Not interested in hearing what I already know.
    Suit yourself.

  2. #192
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    Suit yourself.
    I always do.

  3. #193
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Actually, noone's making the argument that they're not.
    Z, it's impossible to take you seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Because idiots with half a brain keep trying to perpetuate the idea that the systems are not compatible.
    The reason they're not compatible is because they're so different. Especially how the elements are defined. Wake up.

  4. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Z, it's impossible to take you seriously. Cut the shit.
    Nice non-response, Jag.

    Try actually figuring out the arguments we're making.

  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    The reason they're not compatible is because they're different.
    Read the arguments made elsewhere so you can actually understand what is meant by compatible in this context.

    Different =/= not compatible

    Wake up.
    I already am.

    Try actually figuring out the arguments made.

  6. #196
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Nice non-response, Jag.

    Try actually figuring out the arguments we're making.
    Try learning the models.
    You've had years and you still don't know what you're talking about.

  7. #197
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Z, it's impossible to take you seriously.



    The reason they're not compatible is because they're so different. Especially how the elements are defined. Wake up.
    The reason they aren't compatible right now is due to the perspective through which the functions are defined. JCF defines the functions internally, describing how each function actively works, contributes, synthesizes, interprets, etc., while Socionics defines the functions externally, how others perceive users of those functions. To others, an ILI/INTJ/INTp's Ni would definitely seem like the ability to determine where a course of events is heading and how to plan for the future, but it misses the internal perspective of the function and glosses over it with "ILIs usually have a very active, vivid imagination" (this is used for LIIs, as well, but inherently different). Socionics misses what JCF provides, that Ni in addition to forseeing where trends are heading also hyper-analyzes situations from the past as well as concepts, squeezes every ounce of possible information out of fragmented, ambiguous data, and the personal integration that occurs when Ni latches onto an idea, concept, or theory, and the reason Socionics doesn't cover it is because other people don't notice these other mechanics of Ni working, they only see what is presented on the outside to them, which in the case of the ILI, is predictions of future trends. The two systems aren't fundamentally different, they describe each others' blind-spots, Socionics shows how the functions are perceived externally and through the third person, JCF shows how the functions work internally and how they are perceived through the first person.

  8. #198
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alea_iacta_est View Post
    The reason they aren't compatible right now is due to the perspective through which the functions are defined.
    From the looks of this thread, it appears some people have a problem with different models being used to look at things in different ways - as if there should be only one way to look at something. Look, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but we've been over this a million times in this forum. The definitions are different. People know that. Big deal.

  9. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Especially how the elements are defined.
    Yes, I agree.

    And this has already been covered.

    Socionics puts more emphasis of "Jish" qualities on Judging functions, regardless of whether they're extroverted.

    This then makes types that have a dominant introverted Judging function sound more "Jish" in Socionics than in MBTI.

    And it makes types that have a dominant introverted Perceiving function sound more "Pish" in Socionics than MBTI.

    And, lastly, each theorist emphasizes different things they believe to be true about the functions.

    This exists within the "MBTI" world, between different theorists.

    It exists within the Socionics world, between Socionics theorists.

    And it exists between "MBTI" theorists and Socionics theorists.

    And, lastly, it exists between Jung and all of them.

    That doesn't mean, tho, that when they're trying to describe Extroverted Sensing, that they're not trying to describe the same thing.

    They may emphasize different things about it, they may disagree about certain things about it, but they're still trying to describe the same thing.

    10 Different Painters + Same Scene = 10 Different Paintings

    Some will be more alike than others, some will be better than others, some will focus on things other didn't even paint.

    Regardless, the underlying scene was the same.

    Our job is to figure out which painters were most insightful and accurate, and what was insightful and accurate about what they painted.

  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Try learning the models.
    You've had years and you still don't know what you're talking about.
    I've learned Socionics.

    Try learning the arguments being made.

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