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  1. #21
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    Lol, yes. Which is why I feel like a hybrid of the two descriptions; less actively involved, emotionally-expressive, and self-forgetting, as well as more prudent than an SEI, less openly hostile than an ESI. Overall, Myers-Briggs ISFP is a much more satisfying description for me, since it seems to incorporate traits from both.

    Anyway, I'll take what you've said into consideration. Thanks.
    Yeah I’m not surprised that you find the SEI descriptions jarring. I think it has to do with how the Quadra’s where developed; they seem to be a mesh of Freud’s psychosexual development combined with what appears to be class distinctions. The Aphas have always struck me as being the moderate to wealthy group within the ex-soviet states. The lack of concern with money or power having never been in a position without, the obsession with fun and fine food in a superpower destitute of artistic expression and that regularly suffered from famines (which makes the VI descriptions of alpha SFs carrying significant weight disconcerting.). Honestly I find it surprising that so many Westerners relate to it at all, their just so very Russian.

    I believe the official line for this is normalisation; essential the world has crushed you down, and now you will only show your true self to another Alpha.

    I should probably point out that I don’t really think that socionics makes all that much sense, but I was for a time mildly obsessed with it; it really is just Jung and all his extensive work mashed with Freud’s…….. which makes for double the crazy and then tied together with circular logic. So a lot of what i say is probably going to be a tad cynical.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    @Dr Mobius

    As for your point about aesthetics, aren't there quite a few ESI's who are musicians, or involved in other creative fields? I've seen artists like Bob Dylan and Frank Ocean typed as ESI, and assuming they're accurately typed, I can certainly see aspects of my personality and demeanor in them. Moreso than a stereotypical SEI-Fe.

    People use music for different ends, and while it might be aesthetically pleasing that could have only been a means to an end. Bob Dylan has always struck me as Delta, his music was all about attacking the status quo by asking everyone to stop and look at what was going down. He used his music as an efficient model for his ethical message.

    As for the other guy I don’t know him at all but looking at his Wikipedia page I can certainly see why he is typed as ESI. He appears to be using music to obtain power, wealth, and control. The controversy over the sampling of Hotel California is a good example he was well aware that doing that would stir up the media; which in turn would raise his profile whatever the outcome.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    If SEI descriptions/stereotypes are based on SEI-Fe's, I'd also argue that many ESI descriptions are based on middle-aged ESI-Se's.
    Very true; I’m going to indulge myself in some wild speculation here, and guess that you’re not e9 and that whatever your instinctual variant is social is right at the bottom?
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”

  2. #22
    Stansmith
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    @Dr Mobius

    I think most evidence points to Bob Dylan being part of a Democratic quadra (Gamma or Alpha), since he refused to be associated with any of the social movements of the time and had to stop writing 'protest songs' altogether because of this..A Beta or Delta NF in his position would probably have more of a willingness to get directly involved, or to 'sacrifice' him/herself for the sake of the movement (Joan Baez being a good example of this).

    Nonetheless, you bring up some interesting points..

  3. #23
    Chaser of Light Dr Mobius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stansmith View Post
    @Dr Mobius

    I think most evidence points to Bob Dylan being part of a Democratic quadra (Gamma or Alpha), since he refused to be associated with any of the social movements of the time and had to stop writing 'protest songs' altogether because of this..A Beta or Delta NF in his position would probably have more of a willingness to get directly involved, or to 'sacrifice' him/herself for the sake of the movement (Joan Baez being a good example of this).

    Nonetheless, you bring up some interesting points..
    You’re quite right; I really am rusty at this. For some reason I thought Alpha and Delta where Democratic. Yes Bob Dylan as ESI makes sense; I keep forgetting that all the positive traits where taken by socionics experts cough *Alpha and Gamma NTs* cough.

    Anyway you seem suitably perplexed so my work here is done.
    “Brighter, now brighter, pay no mind to those who squint, burn with all your heat.”

  4. #24
    Senior Member edchidna1000's Avatar
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    It's been a while. I'll take a look this evening when there is sound on my computer.
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  5. #25
    Stansmith
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    Quote Originally Posted by edchidna1000 View Post
    It's been a while. I'll take a look this evening when there is sound on my computer.
    I deleted the video a couple of weeks ago, sorry. Thanks anyway though.

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