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  1. #91
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garbage View Post
    My guess is that @edchidna1000 has sold me a type. Congratulations to him!
    You mean ENTJ? I believe that was your first top score on my test.
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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by edchidna1000 View Post
    If it's very important to an IEE they might try, but the IEE's willpower can only hold out so long as the IEE is interested in the task at hand. Being faced with Ti rules and administration can quickly diminish that interest. IEEs are probably the most fickle of the types.
    When you talk about IxE "being interested", I suspect that's a much too generic word to use. Maybe it sounds strange if I ask you to define what "being interested" means to you as Ne-leading but can you please attempt elaborating on this? Including what having an interest depends on. Potential of some sort? What kind of potential? Etc...

    As a contrast, I'll say, for me being interested usually involves a challenge, making the thing interesting.

    And yeah, I'm nowhere near as fickle, as IEE seems to be.


    Procrastination just wouldn't make sense to an Se-lead. To them, the life that is important is that which is lived and experienced now. Why would anything they want to do be delayed until tomorrow?
    But I procrastinate on things I don't really want to do lol

    I do other shit instead :P

    What does Ne-lead do when procrastinating? Are they not living a life "now"? Too busy with ideas in their heads you mean?


    On another note; To refine the picture with procrastination for me, there's also some things that I do want to do but they are pretty enormous tasks needing to be broken down into steps. So I need to do that first. Though sometimes I don't bother and just start anyhow right away. That make sense to you in terms of my type?


    That sounds Se.
    Yeah ... you as IxE, do you not ever enjoy much going for things like that? Do you feel "locked in" mentally or something if you were to act with a one-track mind's focus? I'm just trying to understand the Ne mindset


    Until a less boring alternative pops up, which the IxE will immediately start to consider rather than the obstacle-ridden task at hand. The grass is always greener on the other side. The IxE gets bored when the task at hand starts to seem repetitive or limited. An IEE faced with Ti will quickly see the venture as one that might have appeared interesting but was riddled with unenjoyable tasks and it's all too easy for them to jump to something else.
    So for IxE getting through obstacles is a boring thing? ?

    Oh well it's got to do something with Si valuing as well yes?


    Well if the thing is a chore or something the Se-lead doesn't desire. They certainly won't be told to do it. As an EP type, they pursue what they desire. The difference with an Se-lead is that once something is desired, they will plough through obstacles with force of will to get at the desired thing while the Ne-lead has a multitude of desired things and will flit from one to the next.
    I don't enjoy flitting around between several things/goals at once. I can't explain why not, it just isn't pleasant to my mind. Staying on track for one thing is mentally very pleasant though, more than just pleasant really. Make sense?


    I'd say this all Se, the way you like to have your engines revved by challenges and then being able to own it. You're an SLE.
    Ooh well it wasn't that hard to type me after all? :p

    Btw were you hesitating originally between Ne/Se for me just because of the intellectuality buzz word? Can't intellect come from logic? I told you that I pretty much do it from logic, not creativity...

    Or did you see anything else that seemed N to you?


    Well thank you for that, note when read a female portrait that made just that much more sense. (I'm female)


    Different levels? I'm afraid my Se isn't strong enough to perceive different levels of force effectively :P
    Ahmm okay... would you say you are a bit overly sensitive in general to whatever you feel is "forceful"?


    Offensive as in, taking the offensive. Going in on the offence.
    OK. Yes I relate to that then


    The Se-lead will realise when the situation requires some Ne, so they will sit down and use it.
    Well I sometimes make really silly errors in this area. At least I attribute it to crappy Ne, those cases when I don't think of some options that would've helped me get where I want. I still sort stuff though, sure. It's just annoying when I realise I could've thought of whatever option to use. That sounds like superego Ne then?


    Quote Originally Posted by edchidna1000 View Post
    He likes to create a synthesised whole for understanding. He doesn't like to adhere to a particular system. This is what I mean by Ti-Id.

    It could even be that the particular systems being synthesised might contradict but as long as there is a working whole, this doesn't matter to someone with Te in the Ego.
    OK, I see. This synthesis, does it need Ni and/or Ne as well?

    OK well enough questions for now heh


    That would be Ignoring-Si. You have enough ability in Si to utilise it when necessary but you don't see importance to it. An Si lead might not even want coffee to get energy. They would probably just have cultivated a taste for those of good quality.
    Oh I sometimes do like some Si stuff just don't focus on it for long. But yeah otherwise I agree with what you say here


    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    I relate to all of this too and as an LII supposedly I'm Si valuing yet I ignore it much of the time. I tend to push myself body-wise. Stay awake until I'm literally ready to fall over, put off eating until I have gnawing hunger pangs. Things like that. Yet I appreciate good food and comfy things. Sometimes I'm just too lazy to cook something nice, and just eat whatever is easy to get on hand.
    I guess I didn't make myself too clear about what I meant exactly

    I'm a bit more conscious of Si than that, I prefer to go to bed when I'm tired, of course if there is something I'm working on or whatever, I will be able to stay up longer. I don't have a very well scheduled life but in terms of sleep I do try to keep it regular. Not always easy when you don't have external circumstances forcing you to stay on schedule because then you have to force yourself instead.

    Lol at "gnawing hunger pangs", what I do instead is, I have lots of energy to keep going without feeling hungry, and without actually being hungry really, I guess my body is efficient or something, but if I start feeling hunger at a point I usually will take care of it sooner than that. It's not nice being too hungry, it makes me irritable in a way I feel I have no control over. I can otherwise ignore that too if needed. But I don't really want to ignore hunger for long also because I do sports regularly and I don't want that to get in the way. I actually need to schedule my eating to a degree because of the sports stuff. I can exercise for pretty long even when hungry but it's just not conducive to the goal of getting fitter, better have an effective schedule for that.

    So that's what I meant by "Sometimes I take care of certain basic negative aspects".

    Hmm the other aspect, I do appreciate refined stuff, good food in a good restaurant but I'm just as happy eating something simple that I don't hate eating. I don't need much comfort in terms of that. That's lucky for sure as I hate having to spend much time on these needs, I see it as a waste of time to spend too much with it, I only cook simple quick food for example. Um, I don't like to spend too much money on food either, that's a waste of money again though I sometimes do spend money when I feel like it.

    Otoh, I don't know where that fits in socionics but I'm picky with some foods, I don't eat certain meat for example. I never tried to force myself to like it and I don't feel the need to.

    Btw I recall mobilizing function is the function that you do value but you can easily ignore as well and then at other times indulge in it a lot, mobilizing function is a really unbalanced function for whatever reason. LII has Si as mobilizing function, do you relate to ever indulging in Si?

    Another thing. When I said Si gets in the way, I meant if I was caring too much about comfort I would not be able to do some things so easily. It would mentally and maybe even physically get in the way or something. Not a nice thought at all. For you, does Si get in the way too, I suppose for you it's mostly with intellectual activities where you don't want to take the time to attend to your body?

    Also... Do you relate to being good at aesthetics? Because I talked about that too.



    Quote Originally Posted by edchidna1000 View Post
    In your case, it looks as if you don't pay enough attention to your body... forgetting your physical needs until they're painful etc. this is weak Si.

    For Si-Ignoring, they are able to pay attention to their bodies and do, hence why they're good at honing their bodies into physical effectiveness. However, they keep things Spartan because luxury isn't really valued. They won't be neglecting sleep or food though.
    Yeah you summed this up very well. I would add though - as above - that I do like luxury at times, if someone takes me to an expensive restaurant, I'm not going to say no to it (I don't like to spend that much on food otherwise... it's just food, it will be gone in a few minutes. Who cares)


    Quote Originally Posted by garbage View Post
    My guess is that @edchidna1000 has sold me a type. Congratulations to him!
    Well awesome then :p


    In my earlier years, gauging subjective distance definitely wasn't as strong as my ability to produce (or to think about how best to produce). I've put a lot into practice in social psychology. "Having a love/hate relationship with" can turn to "assessing properly, for good and for bad" when one gains a greater understanding.

    From some perspective, one could say that being able to pick up on that psychological distance was a goal of mine and that I learned about typology &c. to reach that goal. The way that particular thread was weaved would point squarely to.. .. black-square dominance.
    Such an interesting approach. You're so different from me. This psychological distance thing, why were you so interested in developing that? I mean I don't care to hear the socionics explanation of Te-lead Fi-DS, I would like to hear your own perspective on this in normal everyday words without "socionifying" it.

    Btw what I bolded, I think that is very very Te. I supposedly have good Te too but I don't actually stop to think about these things as much. I guess if I was Te-lead I would do just that. I'm sorry I doubted your Te-ness ;p Maybe the facts remembering thing is Te with an S thing, LSE more than LIE? LIE would instead do this synthesis thing?


    This one actually resonates with me, but with a slant to it. I tend to take on many 'projects' at once, because one or a few might win out, or many may seem interesting; but I shift priorities around and back out of some of those obligations when the prospect for potential disappears. I'm also not a fan of restrictions and details--the former suffocates me and the latter bores me to tears--but my way of handling them is to try to rise to (or otherwise shift to) positions that don't require them; which, in turn, often requires accepting some in the short term.
    What kind of potential are you talking about?

    Details... you're such a typical N in MBTI too, I bet. I'm not a fan of details only if I can do a shortcut around them to get to goal quicker.

  3. #93
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    I'm a bit more conscious of Si than that, I prefer to go to bed when I'm tired, of course if there is something I'm working on or whatever, I will be able to stay up longer. I don't have a very well scheduled life but in terms of sleep I do try to keep it regular. Not always easy when you don't have external circumstances forcing you to stay on schedule because then you have to force yourself instead.

    Lol at "gnawing hunger pangs", what I do instead is, I have lots of energy to keep going without feeling hungry, and without actually being hungry really, I guess my body is efficient or something, but if I start feeling hunger at a point I usually will take care of it sooner than that. It's not nice being too hungry, it makes me irritable in a way I feel I have no control over. I can otherwise ignore that too if needed. But I don't really want to ignore hunger for long also because I do sports regularly and I don't want that to get in the way. I actually need to schedule my eating to a degree because of the sports stuff. I can exercise for pretty long even when hungry but it's just not conducive to the goal of getting fitter, better have an effective schedule for that.
    I have trouble sticking to a schedule for things like eating and sleeping and not much interested in sticking to one.

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Hmm the other aspect, I do appreciate refined stuff, good food in a good restaurant but I'm just as happy eating something simple that I don't hate eating. I don't need much comfort in terms of that. That's lucky for sure as I hate having to spend much time on these needs, I see it as a waste of time to spend too much with it, I only cook simple quick food for example. Um, I don't like to spend too much money on food either, that's a waste of money again though I sometimes do spend money when I feel like it.
    I'm much the same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Btw I recall mobilizing function is the function that you do value but you can easily ignore as well and then at other times indulge in it a lot, mobilizing function is a really unbalanced function for whatever reason. LII has Si as mobilizing function, do you relate to ever indulging in Si?
    There are times where I'll drive out of my way to literally take the scenic route or spend a little extra to try that new restaurant or dish. With sleep I'm like this, one night I deprive myself and think it's a waste of time and another night I enjoy snuggling under the covers. So I guess Si as mobilizing fits.

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    For you, does Si get in the way too, I suppose for you it's mostly with intellectual activities where you don't want to take the time to attend to your body?
    Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Also... Do you relate to being good at aesthetics? Because I talked about that too.
    I think I can be quite good at aesthetics when I put the time and effort into it. I can't draw to save my life but I have a good sense of artistic composition- what looks good together.

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    I would add though - as above - that I do like luxury at times, if someone takes me to an expensive restaurant, I'm not going to say no to it (I don't like to spend that much on food otherwise... it's just food, it will be gone in a few minutes. Who cares)
    Same here.
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  4. #94
    garbage
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    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Such an interesting approach. You're so different from me. This psychological distance thing, why were you so interested in developing that? I mean I don't care to hear the socionics explanation of Te-lead Fi-DS, I would like to hear your own perspective on this in normal everyday words without "socionifying" it.
    I think I saw my love/hate relationship with people in my childhood and teens as a problem to be fixed.
    I'm sorry I doubted your Te-ness ;p Maybe the facts remembering thing is Te with an S thing, LSE more than LIE? LIE would instead do this synthesis thing?
    That bolded stuffs is quite possible. I'd love others' input on that one though, because I dunno.
    What kind of potential are you talking about?
    Personal growth and satisfaction, mostly. For one, I like getting lil' things I can check off on the CV/resume.
    Details... you're such a typical N in MBTI too, I bet.
    Yup! In terms of the four MBTI dichotomies (E/I, N/S, T/F, P/J), N is the clearest preference by far, both by self-report and what others have told me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    I have trouble sticking to a schedule for things like eating and sleeping and not much interested in sticking to one.
    Based on your posts here, and especially lines like this one, I could see you as my 'mirror type' (where Leading and Creative functions are swapped).
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    You mean ENTJ? I believe that was your first top score on my test.
    Yeah, it was, with ENTP in close second. As I said too--looking at types independently from the murky MBTI/JCF, the perspective that most people take on to define types, it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility.

  5. #95
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by garbage View Post
    Yeah, it was, with ENTP in close second. As I said too--looking at types independently from the murky MBTI/JCF, the perspective that most people take on to define types, it's definitely not out of the realm of possibility.
    Then Intuition is a well-defined trait, with other traits being less well-defined.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  6. #96
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Silly question probably, but can you be legitimately say an INFJ in MBTI and an Fi dom in Socionics?

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    I have trouble sticking to a schedule for things like eating and sleeping and not much interested in sticking to one.
    It's definitely hard to stick to one if there is no external circumstance requiring it.


    There are times where I'll drive out of my way to literally take the scenic route or spend a little extra to try that new restaurant or dish. With sleep I'm like this, one night I deprive myself and think it's a waste of time and another night I enjoy snuggling under the covers. So I guess Si as mobilizing fits.
    Hmm is looking at a scenic route Si? :o Maybe it depends on how you do it?

    I always enjoy snuggling under the covers For like a few seconds with an empty mind. Then I fall asleep quickly.


    I think I can be quite good at aesthetics when I put the time and effort into it. I can't draw to save my life but I have a good sense of artistic composition- what looks good together.
    Ah, cool.

    As for drawing, I heard it can be learned if you learn to activate your right brain for it. I don't know how sensible that reasoning is (maybe it is, maybe not) but apparently it works for people. I was always very good at drawing and maybe it does have something to do with me being in a "right brained mode" then (I'm definitely non-verbal then... and most of the time anyway).


    Same here.
    Do you value other material things more, stuff that doesn't just last a few minutes? (I know stereotypically LII doesn't care but I'm curious)


    Quote Originally Posted by garbage View Post
    I think I saw my love/hate relationship with people in my childhood and teens as a problem to be fixed.
    And did it get fixed using this approach? What do you mean by love/hate relationship, did you not like people or did they not like you?


    That bolded stuffs is quite possible. I'd love others' input on that one though, because I dunno.
    Yeah I hope @edchidna1000 will chime in :p


    Personal growth and satisfaction, mostly. For one, I like getting lil' things I can check off on the CV/resume.
    I see... the second sentence is so E3-ish


    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Silly question probably, but can you be legitimately say an INFJ in MBTI and an Fi dom in Socionics?
    Depends who you ask :P

  8. #98
    Senior Member edchidna1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    When you talk about IxE "being interested", I suspect that's a much too generic word to use. Maybe it sounds strange if I ask you to define what "being interested" means to you as Ne-leading but can you please attempt elaborating on this? Including what having an interest depends on. Potential of some sort? What kind of potential? Etc...
    Here's a personal example. I often go online to do something of import like school work and suddenly a link catches my eye. An uncontrollable fascination takes hold of me and I just have to find out what the page the link would take me to says. As a result, I click the link, abandoning my work and might click through a series of other links, each one commanding this similar, uncontrollable fascination. In each case, I see a promise in the link, a promise of shiny, new information to entertain in my head with an assortment of other things. For such promises I carry a voracious appetite that isn't satiated until the need to do work becomes urgent.

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    On another note; To refine the picture with procrastination for me, there's also some things that I do want to do but they are pretty enormous tasks needing to be broken down into steps. So I need to do that first. Though sometimes I don't bother and just start anyhow right away. That make sense to you in terms of my type?
    It would be unnatural for you to carefully and patiently plan something out, this is Ni Te territory. Instead it would be natural for you to get a basic structure and jump in head first.

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Yeah ... you as IxE, do you not ever enjoy much going for things like that? Do you feel "locked in" mentally or something if you were to act with a one-track mind's focus? I'm just trying to understand the Ne mindset
    I can be competitive for limited durations.

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    So for IxE getting through obstacles is a boring thing? ?

    Oh well it's got to do something with Si valuing as well yes?
    Kinda, fighting too much is too draining, we'd rather rest if it gets too tough or find something more appealing. The point is, there's always something better to do than what we're doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Btw were you hesitating originally between Ne/Se for me just because of the intellectuality buzz word? Can't intellect come from logic? I told you that I pretty much do it from logic, not creativity...
    Or did you see anything else that seemed N to you?
    You just seemed rather playful and not so overtly masculine. There was a lightness that I don't see too often in SLEs but have seen in ILEs.

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Well thank you for that, note when read a female portrait that made just that much more sense. (I'm female)
    Ah, this possibly explains a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Ahmm okay... would you say you are a bit overly sensitive in general to whatever you feel is "forceful"?
    No, an LII would be though. If someone is being rough it takes a while for me to notice.

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    Well I sometimes make really silly errors in this area. At least I attribute it to crappy Ne, those cases when I don't think of some options that would've helped me get where I want. I still sort stuff though, sure. It's just annoying when I realise I could've thought of whatever option to use. That sounds like superego Ne then?
    Oh yes, it takes effort for 2D Ne to become adequate and even then you might slip up. It's just not so useless as 1D Fi.

    Quote Originally Posted by valaki View Post
    OK, I see. This synthesis, does it need Ni and/or Ne as well?
    I am of the opinion that any strong working of an IM element requires its inversion working the background... good Ni has Ne working for it.
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  9. #99
    philosopher wood nymph greenfairy's Avatar
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    Well, I would do it. When I get around to it. I keep thinking i'm going to do a video for typing purposes (mostly Enneagram and instinctual variants), but it could be used for this too- but I'm scared, and I feel like it has to be perfect. Which is silly. That probably says something about me. Everything has to be perfect. I want to talk about the right things and answer the questions with the right information and have answers ready so I don't waste people's time.

  10. #100
    Senior Member edchidna1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenfairy View Post
    Silly question probably, but can you be legitimately say an INFJ in MBTI and an Fi dom in Socionics?
    There are multiple ways you can look at this:

    1. By the standards of Socionics, the 8 Introverted types in MBTI are incoherent, so no one can really have INFJ as a type.
    2. Learning your Socionics type updates your understanding of Jungian typology so as you shift from an inferior build to the updated system, your type updates from INFJ to whatever your Socionics type is.
    3. You could hold that due to the slightly different definitions of the dichotomies and functions in MBTI and Socionics, you could feasibly be two different types in the two systems without contradiction.
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