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  1. #21
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    As for Gamma SFs here are some representative videos and examples:






  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    Ti isn't "logic" per se. It's an instinctive sense of the more sensible and fitting arrangement, but fleshing out what you think, formal logic, providing arguments and proofs, etc. any type can do this. EIIs and IEEs who train themselves in logical fallacies and logical discourse become very good at it despite having weak Ti. This means the Tx functions and "logic" are not the same thing.
    OK... then that instinctive sense I have is socionics Ti, fine.

  3. #23
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    more gamma SF music, notice unconstrained freedom of movements (Se)






  4. #24
    Senior Member edchidna1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    Ti isn't "logic" per se. It's an instinctive sense of the more sensible and fitting arrangement, but fleshing out what you think, formal logic, providing arguments and proofs, etc. any type can do this. EIIs and IEEs who train themselves in logical fallacies and logical discourse become very good at it despite having weak Ti. This means the Tx functions and "logic" are not the same thing.
    Well, Logic is External rather than Internal. It's not so much an instinct from within as an ability to perceive and work with the structures and contradictions that appear in our environment. As such, the laws and systems of formal logic would count as Ti too. It makes sense to say that a Logical type would be able to start working with and manipulating such a system more quickly and confidently than an Ethical type.
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  5. #25
    Stansmith
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    Ha, going off of @sulfit 's idea..

    SEE



    ESI


  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by edchidna1000 View Post
    Well, Logic is External rather than Internal. It's not so much an instinct from within as an ability to perceive and work with the structures and contradictions that appear in our environment. As such, the laws and systems of formal logic would count as Ti too. It makes sense to say that a Logical type would be able to start working with and manipulating such a system more quickly and confidently than an Ethical type.
    So these systems of formal logic can be approached both from instinctual Ti and whatever kind of Te?

    I find it interesting that my instinctual version of Ti usually matches formal logic really well. My proof for that is that I excelled at mathematics when in school. So anyway, the point isn't bragging here but the fact that formal logic does have something to do with this kind of instinctual logic.

    And I guess it's easy to explain, after all, formal logic is just a refined version of our thinking capabilities.

    And honestly, if an IEE can learn formal logic, they do have those capabilities somewhere in there. Just not instinctual or what? How does socionics explain that?

  7. #27
    Senior Member edchidna1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by infinity- View Post
    So these systems of formal logic can be approached both from instinctual Ti and whatever kind of Te?

    I find it interesting that my instinctual version of Ti usually matches formal logic really well. My proof for that is that I excelled at mathematics when in school. So anyway, the point isn't bragging here but the fact that formal logic does have something to do with this kind of instinctual logic.

    And I guess it's easy to explain, after all, formal logic is just a refined version of our thinking capabilities.

    And honestly, if an IEE can learn formal logic, they do have those capabilities somewhere in there. Just not instinctual or what? How does socionics explain that?
    Well, Te would be something different (also external). It would be the methodologies in the world. Pretty much any working process.

    The formal definitions are these:

    Ti = External Statics of Fields i.e. truths, axioms, laws.

    Te = External Dynamics of Objects i.e. methods, processes, mechanisms.


    Ah, well everyone has access to all 8 aspects of information. It's just that when your IM Element is 1-Dimensional (like the vulnerable function), you can only use it at its most basic level. It would be hard work for an IEE to learn Formal Logic but its possible through rote memory and practising. Nevertheless, when put in a new situation, they will be unlikely to put this knowledge to adequate use. They may find themselves out of their depth because the logic they have learned will still be very difficult to manipulate.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by edchidna1000 View Post
    Well, Te would be something different (also external). It would be the methodologies in the world. Pretty much any working process.

    The formal definitions are these:

    Ti = External Statics of Fields i.e. truths, axioms, laws.

    Te = External Dynamics of Objects i.e. methods, processes, mechanisms.


    Ah, well everyone has access to all 8 aspects of information. It's just that when your IM Element is 1-Dimensional (like the vulnerable function), you can only use it at its most basic level. It would be hard work for an IEE to learn Formal Logic but its possible through rote memory and practising. Nevertheless, when put in a new situation, they will be unlikely to put this knowledge to adequate use. They may find themselves out of their depth because the logic they have learned will still be very difficult to manipulate.
    Alright. Hm based on how hard it seems to engage e.g. Fi for me, I can only say I have high respect for those IEEs who do learn that stuff.

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