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  1. #1
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Arrow A little help with Socionics, anyone?

    I have been told to look at MBTI and Socionics as two different systems, and take Socionics as if I have no knowledge of MBTI...which I did. But I really want to understand the whole picture now. I want to understand how an SEI in Socionics and letters ISFp in Socionics, has the "same functions" as an ISFJ in MBTI...Is it because in Socionics the "p is like silent" (for lack of better words) in the ISFp...as if the person has a very low level at which there percieverness is, or is conciously used or something??

    And if I go by MBTI and my friend is 100% ISFJ and I go by Socionics my friend is 100% ISFp...am I really supposed to have an impression of a hint of ISFP (Myers Briggs wise) being in that person? Or do I just leave it as my friend is ISFJ(MBTI) and ISFp/SEI(Socionics)??<---The reason I'm asking this is cause I kinda find no difference between MBTI and Socionics other than: Socionics put the functions in different order, the functions are SLIGHTLY described different, and there's subtypes and duals and all that lovely jazz. IMO Socionics just gives more tools, therefore more freedom for someone to expand on thier type (ie subtypes) Maybe @DJ Arendee can help? I would love feedback from anyone!
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    Here are the socionics functions.

    Upon further thought you'll realize they're the same as mbti.

  3. #3
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    After searching more I found out what I was trying to ask. I failed miserably at asking this question. I just didn't understand the "J/P switch" but now I got it thanks!
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

  4. #4
    #KUWK Kierva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Arendee View Post


    Here are the socionics functions.

    Upon further thought you'll realize they're the same as mbti.
    Here's where I have to correct you.

    They are different because they have different definitions. I'd like to direct you to this link for your (and everyone else's) information.

    Sure, there are overlaps, but they focus on different things. Take Se for example:

    MBTI Se - what is
    Socionics Se - what has power


    Or even Si:

    MBTI Si - what has been internalized
    Socionics Si - what affects the senses

    And you do realize that the type profiles on wikisocion has a certain bent to it right? Since you are SLE, let me invite you this part of the profile:

    SLEs are strong-willed, independently-minded individuals who are able to recognize levels of willpower and motivation in others. They are almost always collected and ready for action. They are adept at organizing others effectively towards any given objective, and have no problem "getting the job done," even if it requires stepping on a few toes. They will take the initiative and act at the opportune moment. SLEs will often act without complete information, improvising as they go, but are successful nonetheless. Instability energizes them, as they are active people who think clearly on the move and tend to be unsatisfied with a stationary, peaceful lifestyle.

    SLEs easily spot power dynamics within any given structure, hierarchy or relationship, and strive for a secure position where they are less subordinate to others. At the same time, SLEs are comfortable with hierarchies, and recognize that they are a necessary part of everyday life. SLEs may sometimes seem dismissive of those of a lower social status, as if they were weak or inferior in some way. Likewise, they see dependence as weakness, and so strive to minimize their dependence on others, especially in their personal relationships.

    SLEs' energetic and direct nature tends to make them natural leaders. They are quick to assume this role, even in alien or unfamiliar environments. They usually adopt a direct administrative style and build a bureaucratic structure beneath them over time. They will take full responsibility for their actions, and understand these terms when they take a leadership-based role within a group, company or organization as being part of what leadership is about.

    SLEs are highly observant and take note of all the objects present in their surroundings. They are well aware of which objects they have, and which they want, and tend to be possessive of their property. At the same time, they also have a generous streak and can easily bestow gifts and share their property with others to demonstrate acceptance of the other person or people.
    At which point does it ever mention the "what is" part of Se that you see in MBTI?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vetani View Post
    Here's where I have to correct you.

    They are different because they have different definitions. I'd like to direct you to this link for your (and everyone else's) information.

    Sure, there are overlaps, but they focus on different things. Take Se for example:

    MBTI Se - what is
    Socionics Se - what has power



    Or even Si:

    MBTI Si - what has been internalized
    Socionics Si - what affects the senses

    And you do realize that the type profiles on wikisocion has a certain bent to it right? Since you are SLE, let me invite you this part of the profile:



    At which point does it ever mention the "what is" part of Se that you see in MBTI?
    You're mistaken.

    Socionics defines Se as "objective sensing"

    objective sensing = what is [objectively sensed]

    same thing.

    As far as the power dynamics goes... yeah I'm not sure how that works. I feel like most SLE descriptions are talking about enneagram 8's anyway. I have no idea how Se has anything to do with power. There is nothing about that that makes any sense.

  6. #6
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urarienev View Post
    I want to understand how an SEI in Socionics and letters ISFp in Socionics, has the "same functions" as an ISFJ in MBTI...Is it because in Socionics the "p is like silent" (for lack of better words) in the ISFp...as if the person has a very low level at which there percieverness is, or is conciously used or something??
    In summary: Socionics and MBTI do not use j/p letters in the same way because Socionics distributes j/p according to a dichotomy called Rational/Irrational, which does not exist in MBTI, while MBTI distributes J/P according to a dichotomy called Judger/Perceiver, and these dichotomies are not the same.

    In Socionics the main dichotomy separating types is Rational/Irrational, which is set on basis of type's dominant function. Rational types are all types with dominant rational, judging function: Te, Fe, Ti, Fe. These types are assigned 'j' letter. Irrational types are all types with dominant perceiving, irrational function: Ni, Si, Ne, Se. These types are assigned 'p' letter.

    In MBTI the main dichotomy is Judger/Perceiver, which is set on basis of type's first extraverted function. Types whose 1st or 2nd function is a rational, judging one (Te, Fe, Ti, Fe) are J-types, while types whose 1st or 2nd function is irrational, perceiving one (Ni, Si, Ne, Se) are P-types.

    So then if you have a type that has Si as first function and Fe as second function, in Socionics it is going to be assigned 'p' letter because it's dominant function is a perceiving, irrational one (Si). While in MBTI this type will be assigned a 'J' letter because it's 2nd function is a judging, rational one (Fe). This discrepancy in the last letter occurs only for introverted types because it is only for introverts that the dominant function and first extraverted function are different. For extraverted types, they are the same so for example a Ne,Ti type is called ENTP in MBTI and ENTp in Socionics - there is no change in the last letter.

    The last letter in Socionics type codes is small to distinguish it from MBTI.

    And if I go by MBTI and my friend is 100% ISFJ and I go by Socionics my friend is 100% ISFp...am I really supposed to have an impression of a hint of ISFP (Myers Briggs wise) being in that person?
    You're supposed to go by functions rather than the 4-letter codes, which aren't assigned in the same way as I've mentioned above. If your friend is Si and Fe then she'll be ISFJ ISFp/SEI.

  7. #7
    Unapologetic being Evolving Transparency's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    In summary: Socionics and MBTI do not use j/p letters in the same way because Socionics distributes j/p according to a dichotomy called Rational/Irrational, which does not exist in MBTI, while MBTI distributes J/P according to a dichotomy called Judger/Perceiver, and these dichotomies are not the same.

    In Socionics the main dichotomy separating types is Rational/Irrational, which is set on basis of type's dominant function. Rational types are all types with dominant rational, judging function: Te, Fe, Ti, Fe. These types are assigned 'j' letter. Irrational types are all types with dominant perceiving, irrational function: Ni, Si, Ne, Se. These types are assigned 'p' letter.

    In MBTI the main dichotomy is Judger/Perceiver, which is set on basis of type's first extraverted function. Types whose 1st or 2nd function is a rational, judging one (Te, Fe, Ti, Fe) are J-types, while types whose 1st or 2nd function is irrational, perceiving one (Ni, Si, Ne, Se) are P-types.

    So then if you have a type that has Si as first function and Fe as second function, in Socionics it is going to be assigned 'p' letter because it's dominant function is a perceiving, irrational one (Si). While in MBTI this type will be assigned a 'J' letter because it's 2nd function is a judging, rational one (Fe). This discrepancy in the last letter occurs only for introverted types because it is only for introverts that the dominant function and first extraverted function are different. For extraverted types, they are the same so for example a Ne,Ti type is called ENTP in MBTI and ENTp in Socionics - there is no change in the last letter.

    The last letter in Socionics type codes is small to distinguish it from MBTI.


    You're supposed to go by functions rather than the 4-letter codes, which aren't assigned in the same way as I've mentioned above. If your friend is Si and Fe then she'll be ISFJ ISFp/SEI.
    yes thank you lol I FINALLY found that on my own after like 5 days of in depth search on that socion wiki site UGH!

    I don't know why stupid little details like that trips me up, but it takes away from me knowing how a system works 100%...I "understood" everything, I just didn't know why.

    Thank you for ur help!
    "Once the game is over, the Pawn and the King go back into the same box"

    Freedom isn't free.
    "Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear." ~ Orwell
    I'm that person that embodies pretty much everything that you hate. Might as well get used to it.
    Unapologetically bonding in an uninhibited, propelled manner
    10w12

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