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Thread: Socionics - Do you recognize your dual when you encounter them?

  1. #81
    failed poetry slam career Array chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Aw, come on, don't be jelly now. You got to be mesmerised by them ESFPs as well and I didnt bat an eye, did I *pats head*
    I'm lost now.

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    Next stop - ISFP Array Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    I'm lost now.
    It was a joke.

    It's hard to explain why. I guess its just coz they re so...different. They see the world so differently from me and are capable of things I could never fathom doing myself
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    girl with a pretty smile Array Honor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyedecker View Post
    I think so. I'd need to watch some interviews, get a feel for his interaction style.

    The problem with typing celebrities is that we are typing them based on a carefully crafted public persona. I think this is why people are quick to type them as extroverts, because it's easy to mistake being personable and adept at social interactions as extroverted traits, when how well someone does in social settings really has dick to do with whether or not they're using a dominant extroverted function
    Exactly. When I try to figure out a celebrities type, I try to watch a ton of video of him or her in various situations for that reason.
    RobertCalifornia: TL thinks im black
    RobertCalifornia: shes my homegurl
    Hive: arent you
    SpankyMcfly: wait... you arent?

    thoughtlost: I am not really religious. I just like getting free stuff from churches.

  4. #84
    failed poetry slam career Array chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    It was a joke.

    It's hard to explain why. I guess its just coz they re so...different. They see the world so differently from me and are capable of things I could never fathom doing myself
    Well, think! Is it their quest for perfectionism? Their hardassery? Partying hard? Do I need to go on?

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    Next stop - ISFP Array Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    Well, think! Is it their quest for perfectionism? Their hardassery? Partying hard? Do I need to go on?
    If they know what they're doing, they make me weak in the knees. No words necessary. Just a glance.

    Happy?
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    failed poetry slam career Array chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    If they know what they're doing, they make me weak in the knees. No words necessary. Just a glance.

    Happy?
    No. duh

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    Quote Originally Posted by chubber View Post
    No. duh
    There is no pleasing you. It's official.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    There is no pleasing you. It's official.
    Se FTW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Then I know a looooot of IxTJs, dude

    Ok, lemme try this again.

    ISTP or ENFP comes in on this forum.
    He/SHe makes a thread about the dynamic between the two MBTI types
    Says it goes great, but communication can be...difficult coz they are so different, but there is an instant draw and great chemistry because of those differences.
    Inevitably, someone comes in and tells them this is coz they are duals in socionics.

    Are they right[?]...
    No, they're not right.

    The idea of duals is that your dual is your shadow.

    That is all you have to know.

    Any screwing up that occurs after that is caused either by a problem with one system or the other, or user error.

    If you are an SiTe type in one system, you should be an SiTe type in the other.

    The problem is that MBTI puts "Jish" qualities in SiTe-type descriptions, while Socionics puts "pish" qualities in SiTe-type descriptions.

    This makes Socionics descriptions of SiTe types (ISTp in Socionics; ISTJ in MBTI) sound "pish".

    It also makes Socionics descriptions of TiSe types (ISTj in Socionics, ISTP is MBTI) sound "jish".

    And, likewise, this makes MBTI descriptions of SiTe types (ISTp in Socionics; ISTJ in MBTI) sound "Jish".

    It also makes MBTI descriptions of TiSe types (ISTj in Socionics, ISTP is MBTI) sound "Pish".

    Hence, why ISTJs (SiTe) in MBTI will often identify with ISTj (TiSe) profile descriptions in Socionics, and why ISTPs (TiSe) in MBTI will often identifty with ISTp (SiTe) profilfe descriptions in Socionics. And likewise for all the introverted types (the least likely to do so, tho, are the INTx types, for an interesting reason).

    But what this issue really points to is this question: which types actually have "Jish/jish" qualities and which have "Pish/pish"?

    Is it the dominant function being either a judging or a perceiving function that affects this? <--- Socionics

    Or is it whether one's foremost judging function is introverted or extroverted? <--- MBTI

    The truth, as usual, is that it's both; that it's somewhere in between.

    Hence, the 4 EJs (or Ejs) are Js/js in both systems, and are far and away the most "Jish/jish" of all 16 types.

    But types that are Js in one system but ps in the other, or Ps in one system but js in the other (which, due to the structure of the two systems, ends up being all eight introverts), are kinda in between being "Pish/pish" and "Jish/jish".

    Hence, INTPs (INTjs in Socionics) can sometimes seem very prickly/Jish, and INTJs (INTps in Socionics) can sometimes seem very spacy/Pish.

    Because INTPs are dominant judgers, and hence are kinda judgerish, but their foremost extroverted function is a perceiving function, so they can also come off rather perceiverish.

    Likewise, INTJs are dominant perceivers, and hence can be kinda perceiverish, but their foremost judging function is extroverted, so they can also come off more judgerish.

    As such, interestingly, and as makes perfect sense, functionally, it's when the INTPs are more introverted that they seem more Jish (Ti[Si {loop}]), whereas it's when the INTJs are more extroverted that they seem more Jish (Te[Se {loop?}]).

    Other types that are like this (i.e., all the introverts), share this same issue, and thus, are kinduva blend between perceiver and judger.

    Depending on which system's profile descriptions you're reading, you should keep this in mind.

    INTJs are often gunna be more perceiverish than what their MBTI profile descriptions say, and INTps are often gunna be more judgerish than what their Socionics profile descriptions say.

    And so on.

    For all the introverted types.

    EPs (Eps), though, are gunna be super-perceiverish, regardless of system, just like the EJs (Ejs) are super-judgerish.

    As to why you identify with INFJs (INFps) in Socionics, Amar: it's probably just shitty profile descriptions.

    You probably share qualities with INFJs (INFps) anyway, being an NF, and you're just catching onto certain elements of the INFp profile descriptions in Socionics and identifying with them.

    Also, as I showed in this post above, the quadras are problematic concepts, because they group duals (i.e., shadow types) together, and then act like the two types share these common qualities, because they share the same functions. That's an idiotic conceptual maneuver, as it ignores the fact that types usually suppress/reject their shadow functions, and thus are often actually extremely different than their shadow type.

    (The story gets more complicated, if we start developing our shadow functions, and thus start reducing the rejective/suppressive relationship we usually have with our shadow functions, but that's less of a typical state of affairs, and more an advanced state of affairs, and one shouldn't be basing normal type descriptions based on that advanced state of affairs [especially considering, even when someone of particular type does develop beyond normal, and thus does lessen the suppressive/rejective relationship with their shadow functions, that doesn't mean they simply become exactly like their shadow type {e.g, INTJ->ESFP}; rather, when this more advanced level of development does actually occur, we still tend to experience our shadow functions in different ways than our shadow types do, as they are still inferior to our dominant functions {dom and aux}, and we are not nearly as adept at using them as our shadow types are]).

    Because of this, there might be elements in the ENFp descriptions that you're rejecting/not identifying with (i.e., because some Socionics profile descriptions might be based on this idiotic conceptual move, and thus are making ENFPs sound too much like ISTJs [and, likewise, might be making INFJs sounds too much like ESTPs, which, as an EP, you are somewhat identifying with]).

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    ...or is there another reason for the dynamic between these two mbti types?
    There is.

    It's a similar dynamic between ENFPs and all the IT types.

    ENFPs are attracted to the inertness/lack of emotionality that IT types tend to display.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    And how come Socionics - if it aint right - doesn't seem to confirm this?
    I have no idea what this is asking.
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  10. #90
    failed poetry slam career Array chubber's Avatar
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    @Zarathustra thanks for explaining that, now your first post makes more sense.

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