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  1. #121
    Senior Member madhatter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    I also think that alphas and betas are the ones being the most likely to throw big social gatherings as well rather than small ones. Gamma and delta types only really invite those they truly care about or have a personal interest in. Alphas and betas will be more like "bring all your friends, your brothers and sisters and their friends" kind of thing.

    Perfect example of a beta gathering...
    I would disagree with this, at least for myself. Big gatherings get too overwhelming in general. Whenever I plan something, which is rare, I'm only going to call up people I want to be there. For one of my recent birthday dinners, I hand-picked the people I wanted to come, which were my siblings and several friends, and that's it. Even my parents weren't invited. I didn't want any awkwardness or weird dynamics. I wanted good company and good discussion, i.e. a positive, fun atmosphere. And that's what I got. I'd be pissed if one of them dragged along another person uninvited.

    And that party you described...I'd be sneaking out early too. I hate parties like that.

  2. #122
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I've had a hard time figuring out my socionics type. EII sounds like MBTI INFP e9 and IEI sounds like INFJ e4. So I feel stuck between them. And the functions don't help much, because they don't align with Jung, and I keep finding conflicting ideas of what they are in socionics.

    As for quadras, I thought Delta might be closer to my style in that I'm serious, but then I looked at serious/merry distinctions & it stopped being as clear cut as I thought. I like a certain amount of absurdity & melodrama, which I contain because it's misunderstood in most contexts. So I haven't ruled out Beta yet either. It's hard to tell since I'm not very sociable over all.

    But the intertype relations aspect of socionics keeps me wondering... MBTI doesn't cover that much.
    When I was getting too entangled in the theory, what helped me was reading through the quadra subforums on 16types.info and trying to feel where I fit, which quadra feels more like homebase. Not the most logical approach, but I believe that not every problem can be resolved by cold reason and sometimes one has to let one's feelings and intuitions guide the way forward. Later on when I absorbed more of socionics theory turned out that my intuition about what quadra I belonged to was right after all.

    Getting to know people from merry/serious quadras builds external reference points such that one doesn't have to get lost in all the theoretical gibberish. @Marmotini this might work for you too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vetani View Post
    What's up with the beta haters? jesus fuckin christ
    layin' in heavily on stereotypes haha

    all I keep reading for beta in this thread so far is "drama drama emotionalism drama drama dramatic"
    meanwhile, on 16types socionics forum you'll find down-to-earth betas with regular college majors and jobs in such "excitingly dramatic" fields as computer science and accounting

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Socionics is like too much Ti(Ne) just run amok.

    I'm sure it's internally consistent and all...

    It just... doesn't (imo) seem to connect with reality.

    SFPs are much more the opposite of NTJs than they are the same.
    Same thing can be said of MBTI yet you and others have no problem using it. Truth is that both typologies need some good reality checks done alongside studying the theory. It's virtually impossible to study them otherwise, as pure theory, and not get your wires crossed.

  3. #123
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Dunno. Those are my observations so I mean, take them as they are...perhaps I pay attention to other things? I see delta and beta as almost always forming super tight knit groups where it's hard to feel welcome.
    This is strange... most of the groups I've seen have been mixed. I've read others referring to these groups made up of single quadra, but from my observations I've never seen these "tight" homogeneous quadral groups.

    This is something that made me doubt socionics quadra formations initially. In real life, the quadra lines don't seem to be so markedly delineated as socionics tries to portray them.

    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    social norms for beta quadra are self-defined coolness which, when not respected, makes the person a loser
    how does that work for Beta females? self-defined coolness can work for males but I have a hard time picturing how Beta women would get around that

    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    I opened a cashbox in our kitchen in which I have to pay 1 Euro everytime I tell my dom Fi girl that what she just has been doing "aint normal" or that "everyone would understand me except for her".

    We have grown pretty rich that way
    is your girl's type EII?

  4. #124
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    is your girl's type EII?
    IEI
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  5. #125
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropie View Post
    IEI
    you were saying she is Fi dom, is that in MBTI?

    Agreed, but I thought pretty much all the Socionists were NTPs.
    no, while its founder was ILE there have been plenty of other types contributing
    there is a list of like a dozen of socionists w/ their types posted at the bottom here: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...n-to-Socionics

    Valentina Meged & Anatoly Ovcharov (IEE & SLI) - publications
    Liubov Beskova (IEE) - publicatons
    Victor Gulenko (LII-Ne sp/so) - publications; blog
    Vera Stratievskaya (ESI-Se) - website
    Ekaterina Filatova (EII) - publications
    Vladimir Lvov (IEE) - website
    Grigori Bukalov (SLE) - publications
    Tatiana Prokofieva (ILE) - publications
    Alexander Dovgan (LII) - publications
    Irina Eglit (LSE-Te) - http://socionicasys.ru/o-shkole/eksperty/irina-eglit
    Vladimir D. Ermak (LII) - http://socionicasys.ru/o-shkole

    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    They're still all NPs.
    There is at least one SLE, LSE and ESI on that list so no, they are not all NPs as you were saying. Reading through some old threads on 16types, one of their more active socionics theoreticians was an LSE by the forum handle of smilingeyes.

  6. #126
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    you were saying she is Fi dom, is that in MBTI?
    Yes that would be mbti. Socionics gives a more coherent image of the infp compared to my experience with them. When you think of the classical mbti infp you may think of a somewhat shy bookworm or an oversensitive drama kid in the negative sense. Often tho as my experience has shown, they are an irrational powerhouse of criticism, which is quiet unresting. Plus that if you see a healthy infp, you always see that they are very sociable. You do notice that they are introverted and do judge things subjectively but besides that being in the vicinity of their families or very long and deep emotional bond friends is the most fun for them, where they bloom the most. That does put them quite fitting in beta quadra, delta as in EII I dont see for her. Regarding wisdom, I am even wiser
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  7. #127
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by madhatter View Post
    I would disagree with this, at least for myself. Big gatherings get too overwhelming in general. Whenever I plan something, which is rare, I'm only going to call up people I want to be there. For one of my recent birthday dinners, I hand-picked the people I wanted to come, which were my siblings and several friends, and that's it. Even my parents weren't invited. I didn't want any awkwardness or weird dynamics. I wanted good company and good discussion, i.e. a positive, fun atmosphere. And that's what I got. I'd be pissed if one of them dragged along another person uninvited.

    And that party you described...I'd be sneaking out early too. I hate parties like that.
    Yeah, but you're an introvert. I think extroverts care more about the bigger the better (fairly sure one of my friend's friend is an ESE or EIE and her birthday party was pretty much like that as well). And you're Si valuing so it makes sense you'd leave that party too for pretty much the same reasons I cited as well.

    @Faceless Beauty how is my Se PoLR showing, sunshine?


    I also wanted to add a general point that I didn't identify with my quadra at all at first when I read up on quadras either because the delta quadra description is heavily biased towards Si and Te and words such as "production" and "work" are being thrown around without truly explaining what they mean. I actually identified least with the delta quadra description, the most with beta and then alpha in that order because I thought the artistic and part dramatic part of the beta description sounded more like me. Another example of what happens when you throw such terminology around as well without explaining with it means because beta drama is definitely very different to what I imagined drama to be as I was thinking dramatic in the more classical sense of the word that made sense for me due to my strong 4 influence.

    So yeah, maybe time to sign up on wikisocion and fix that?

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  8. #128
    Transient Faceless Beauty's Avatar
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    @LeaT, you're sunshine. I'm anything but sunshine. :P

    But I agree that on the whole, the quadra descriptions can use some work. As for describing your Se PoLR, I'll come back to that one.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    "The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."-Roger Kint, The Usual Suspects
    "You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."- Tyler Durden, Fight Club
    ENTJ, LIE-Ni, 9w8-6w5-3w2

  9. #129
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faceless Beauty View Post
    @LeaT, you're sunshine. I'm anything but sunshine. :P
    Cough, come again you gamma NT?

    I was waiting for the day you and I would meet.

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  10. #130
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    Wow thanks for this. I can see by the negatives of what Gamma "rejects" why so many insist I'm an ESFp Gamma instead of an ISFp Alpha. I tend to embrace the realistic, confrontational interaction if its necessary, and become extremely frustrated with theoretical speculation that has nothing to do with facts/reality.

    Great link. Thanks.
    Hi conflictor!

    Actually, I find that SLE, ESI, LSI, and even my supposed dual ESE tend to rub me more the wrong way than my supposed SEE conflictor. I know a couple of SEE people that repel me though. No not you, you're cool in my book.

    I suppose it's possible I've mistyped myself but over on the socionics forum, the general consensus was LII and I do relate to most of the description. I think LII fits best but I have considered EII,

    Quadra wise I'm having trouble deciding if I'm more alpha or delta. I lean ever so slightly towards alpha at this moment, which is consistent with LII. For one thing, unlike you, I don't embrace the realistic, confrontational interaction with others. I can do it if needed be, but it's by no means natural or comfortable for me. Second, I can speculate on theoretical things until the cows come home. For example, I discover a new theory like socionics, and before you know it, it takes over my mind and I tend to try to want to relate EVERYTHING to socionics. I have occasionally try to come back down to earth and say to myself "it's just a goddam theory." So that's why I think I'm alpha NT. Plus I'm quite introverted, so that means LII.

    However, I'm far more serious than most alpha's are. I think though that being a rational and introverted type, makes me more serious in comparison to the other three alpha types. Regarding social groups, I relate to the Fi style seen in gamma and delta more. Again, maybe being an introvert has some influence on this. I prefer quieter, smaller groups rather than louder more boisterous ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I've had a hard time figuring out my socionics type. EII sounds like MBTI INFP e9 and IEI sounds like INFJ e4. So I feel stuck between them. And the functions don't help much, because they don't align with Jung, and I keep finding conflicting ideas of what they are in socionics.

    As for quadras, I thought Delta might be closer to my style in that I'm serious, but then I looked at serious/merry distinctions & it stopped being as clear cut as I thought. I like a certain amount of absurdity & melodrama, which I contain because it's misunderstood in most contexts. So I haven't ruled out Beta yet either. It's hard to tell since I'm not very sociable over all.

    But the intertype relations aspect of socionics keeps me wondering... MBTI doesn't cover that much.
    Yeah, I'm kind of torn between quadras myself. For me it's between alpha and delta. I'm pretty sure I value Si and Ne. What's more confusing is whether or not I value Ti/Fe or Fi/Te more. Reading function descriptions, it seems like I value Ti and Fi but there's no quadra for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    I view merry and serious as related to Fe and Fi respectively and I think it's easier if you view it this way. Merry types prefer open displays of emotion because it sustains the group atmosphere and I think an important aspect is how merry just like Fe, is inclusive. They seek people to become a part of the group as a collective experience because if you are an outsider you kind of ruin the atmosphere. This is the most emphasized among betas and somewhat among alphas.
    I like a good group atmosphere but I kind of disagree with the notion that outsiders ruin it. If an outsider, wanted to join in, I'd accomodate the outsider, maybe changing the topic of discussion or suggesting an activity the outsider would be interested in. Also open to splitting into smaller groups, which is what gamma/delta is more inclined to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    Then serious as related to Fi is rather the opposite, it's exclusive. Fi types gravitate towards less open displays of emotion especially when it comes to jokes, teasing and laughter. Furthermore, group participation is not expected as Fi types always gravitate towards those they find interesting talking to at the very moment due to shared interests, interesting conversation topics going on and so on. So indeed, merry and serious are noted the best in group settings.
    I like joking, gentle teasing, and laughter but I definitely don't like it, if it ends up offending or making people uncomfortable. This is why heavily beta groups in particular can turn me off. Sometimes, they are too obnoxious and take the jokes too far. I also gravitate towards those who appear to be interesting to talk to, who might have similar interests.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    It's rather easy to figure out as well because if you're the kind of person who rather just speak to a few people you know well and share your interests at a social gathering with many involved you are most likely a serious type, especially if loud laughter and jokes annoy you as well. If you're the kind of person who seeks inclusiveness when it comes to group participation and thinks that open expression of emotions and such is necessary and if it ruins the group atmosphere without it, you're probably merry.
    I kind of lean towards serious in terms of group interaction but I'm not opposed to loud laughter and jokes. Only if they are offensive jokes or if too much of the humor relies on "inside jokes" so that outsiders or even newer group members end up feeling distanced. I prefer fewer to many but this could just be the introversion talking. I like some open expression of emotions- it's no fun if everyone is stoic but at the same time, too much emotional effusiveness puts me off guard as well as people spilling their life stories to people they barely know.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    I also think that alphas and betas are the ones being the most likely to throw big social gatherings as well rather than small ones. Gamma and delta types only really invite those they truly care about or have a personal interest in. Alphas and betas will be more like "bring all your friends, your brothers and sisters and their friends" kind of thing.
    I tend to relate more to gamma/delta again as well. I mostly invite only the people I care about and occasionally people I feel kind of obligated to invite. For example, if I was inviting a close friend, I'd probably invite their spouse as well even if I didn't know the spouse. But I wouldn't be the sort to just have friends invite all their friends, etc. Gets too big and too chaotic.

    Again, I'm wondering if my relating more delta/gamma styles of social interaction in spite of self-typing as LII (an alpha type) is due to my strong introversion. I wonder if other introverted alphas and betas feel the same way and feel more at ease with smaller, lower-key groups?

    Then again, I suppose it's possible, I've mistyped myself. I've also considered EII and ILI as possibilities.

    I do think I'm more of a logical type. I'm not exactly skilled at the feeling type stuff the way socionics describes. I also, don't see myself as being a gamma, which ILI is. I'm pretty sure I value Si/Ne.

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    Thought about that already and I think the socionics quadras relate like this to each Harry Potter house:
    Slytherin gamma
    Ravenclaw delta
    Hufflepuff alpha SF in particular
    Gryffindor beta ST in particular
    I identify with Ravenclaw the most with Hufflepuff a close second.
    I admire Gryffindor's but I'm not really brave enough for them.
    I don't relate much at all to Slytherin.

    I think Ravenclaw would be LII, ILI, maybe some of the quieter ILEs and some EIIs
    Hufflepuff, I think alpha SF works, also some EIIs and SLIs
    I think beta ST could be either Slytherin or Gryffindor
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