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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    It's not missing the point when the bulk of theory and literature is based on Augusta and Gulenko. I'm not trying to just isolate them. It's that their approach dominates socionics.

    I don't even know what type Jung was tbh. MBTI started off with more balance though. Myers is the INFP, but Briggs INFJ. While the MBTI manual today is refined more by statistics than theory.

    edit: Oh, and another thing about Socionics.. and it may sound funny.. but if they had bad impressions of Se, it's because they lived in SOVIET RUSSIA. lol
    +1000

  2. #102
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    snip
    I am sorry, but I really fail to see the connection of this...



    Well apparently you missed KDude's original point, which is that Se is poorly described in Socionics because all the theorists are NPs.
    To this. I saw that post but he didn't imply all socionics are NPs in that post. He simply said the description of Se is bad because Augusta is an ILE. That he later clarifies and complains that many prominent socioinists are NPs is different.

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  3. #103
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    It's not missing the point when the bulk of theory and literature is based on Augusta and Gulenko. I'm not trying to just isolate them. It's that their approach dominates socionics.

    I don't even know what type Jung was tbh. MBTI started off with more balance though. Myers is the INFP, but Briggs INFJ. While the MBTI manual today is refined more by statistics than theory.

    edit: Oh, and another thing about Socionics.. and it may sound funny.. but if they had bad impressions of Se, it's because they lived in SOVIET RUSSIA. lol
    Official literature maybe. I haven't read anything official. All I know is based on English translations and interpretations made by hobbyists and professional English practioners such as Rick DeLong and I have formulated more of an intuitive sense of Se since then. Although I suppose aestrivex' wikia on sensation isn't too bad (the rest I wonder how biased it is though, I haven't bothered to read all):

    http://socionics.ws/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

    I personally think he's an LSI and even if he's not, he self-types as ILI so that should be satisfactory enough for you then.

    I mean, it's not that official sources are the only ones to go to or that we must follow their interpretations of things in a slave-like manner. Jung is usually understood as an Ni and Ti type.

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  4. #104
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    Official literature maybe. I haven't read anything official. All I know is based on English translations and interpretations made by hobbyists and professional English practioners such as Rick DeLong and I have formulated more of an intuitive sense of Se since then. Although I suppose aestrivex' wikia on sensation isn't too bad (the rest I wonder how biased it is though, I haven't bothered to read all):

    http://socionics.ws/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

    I personally think he's an LSI and even if he's not, he self-types as ILI so that should be satisfactory enough for you then.

    I mean, it's not that official sources are the only ones to go to or that we must follow their interpretations of things in a slave-like manner. Jung is usually understood as an Ni and Ti type.
    Rick DeLong is ENFP

    And Mormon.

    Yes, I'm a bigot.

    edit: Oh, that link is run by niffweed. Not rick. He's an ILI, yep (funnily, he thinks I'm ILI).

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    I am sorry, but I really fail to see the connection of this...
    Well, that's not surprising...

    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    To this. I saw that post but he didn't imply all socionics are NPs in that post. He simply said the description of Se is bad because Augusta is an ILE.
    ...as you seem to have a reading comprehension problem:

    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    The other thing about the NeTi bias is how it defines Se. It tells me more about Alpha NTs who invented the system than it does anything Se. They seem to turn Se into something obnoxiously competitive and belligerent. Se gets defined through their own avoidance of it.

  6. #106
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Well, that's not surprising...



    ...as you seem to have a reading comprehension problem:
    No, because claiming NP bias is quite different to alpha NT bias. Please don't pull the whole reading comprehension crap on me. Yes, alpha NTs are NPs but so are delta NFs. He didn't mention NPs as a larger category until later.

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  7. #107
    Senior Member Entropic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Rick DeLong is ENFP

    And Mormon.

    Yes, I'm a bigot.

    edit: Oh, that link is run by niffweed. Not rick. He's an ILI, yep (funnily, he thinks I'm ILI).
    Actually, I am not so sure he is based on our interactions on PersC because there are several posts he's made that really reveals a heavy ST bias on his part (especially the way he types people, he thinks I'm an IEI and a cookie cutter one for example which couldn't be further from reality) but I won't argue the point.

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  8. #108
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    Actually, I am not so sure he is based on our interactions on PersC because there are several posts he's made that really reveals a heavy ST bias on his part (especially the way he types people, he thinks I'm an IEI and a cookie cutter one for example which couldn't be further from reality) but I won't argue the point.
    Fair enough. I haven't spoken to him much. I just know he self-typed that. Comes off sufficiently critical enough (but that doesn't exclude LSI, you're right).

    In any case, I don't care that much about either MBTI or socionics. One is enough for me to juggle around in my head. I stick around here to bullshit mostly.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeaT View Post
    No, because claiming NP bias is quite different to alpha NT bias. Please don't pull the whole reading comprehension crap on me. Yes, alpha NTs are NPs but so are delta NFs. He didn't mention NPs as a larger category until later.
    Yes, because his original claim was about the poor descriptions of Se due to the NTPs who dominate Socionics theory.

    He then mentioned Filatova, another NP (this time NFP), further evidencing how poorly Se is represented amongst Socionics theorists.

    The overarching point being that Socionics theorists, as NPs, all have a poor handle on Se.

    But it's alright. I've gauged how intelligent of an interlocutor you are now.


  10. #110
    Senior Member madhatter's Avatar
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    I'm undoubtedly Alpha, although I do relate some to Beta. I haven't decided on my type yet. It's probably LII, but there's a possibility that I'm ILE.

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