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    Default Very interesting socionics article.

    I found a very interesting socionics article if any of you are interested.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Dmitry-Golihov

    It's quite fascinating in the way they explain the functions as they seem quite different from MBTI. If any of you are going to read this try to eliminate everything you know about MBTI and open your mind to a new perspective and way of looking at functions and their order. The functions are explained quite differently and thus don't relate similarly to MBTI functions. An example is that socionics explains "Se" as being forceful and "Ti" being very stubborn, while MBTI explains Se as wanting to acquire new experiences and Ti as being "analytical".

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    Here is another very interesting article. I encourage that you read both your socionics P and J varient. So for example if you are INFP read Ni-Fe and Fi-Ne.
    http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Here is another very interesting article. I encourage that you read both your socionics P and J varient. So for example if you are INFP read Ni-Fe and Fi-Ne.
    http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm
    Under socionics is it possible for there to be an INFP who uses the functions NiFe or say an ISTP who uses SiTe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaptorWizard View Post
    Under socionics is it possible for there to be an INFP who uses the functions NiFe or say an ISTP who uses SiTe?
    Yes 100% I actually think I relate quite well with socionics SI Te probably even better than MBTIs Ti Se.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    I found a very interesting socionics article if any of you are interested.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Dmitry-Golihov

    It's quite fascinating in the way they explain the functions as they seem quite different from MBTI. If any of you are going to read this try to eliminate everything you know about MBTI and open your mind to a new perspective and way of looking at functions and their order. The functions are explained quite differently and thus don't relate similarly to MBTI functions. An example is that socionics explains "Se" as being forceful and "Ti" being very stubborn, while MBTI explains Se as wanting to acquire new experiences and Ti as being "analytical".
    wow from these i think i'm an ESFp ...THANK YOU! woohoo...i might not actually be that...but at least i'm one step closer!
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    I found that functions relate like this in my case:

    Socionics notation - MBTI notation
    leading - dominant
    creative - auxiliary
    mobilizing/activating - tertiary
    suggestive/dual-seekin - inferior

    So for example descriptions of mobilizing Si would correlate to tertiary Si of INxPs in MBTI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    I found a very interesting socionics article if any of you are interested.

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...Dmitry-Golihov

    It's quite fascinating in the way they explain the functions as they seem quite different from MBTI. If any of you are going to read this try to eliminate everything you know about MBTI and open your mind to a new perspective and way of looking at functions and their order. The functions are explained quite differently and thus don't relate similarly to MBTI functions. An example is that socionics explains "Se" as being forceful and "Ti" being very stubborn, while MBTI explains Se as wanting to acquire new experiences and Ti as being "analytical".
    didnt read the article, but Ti isnt some entity that is stubborn or Se some entity that is forceful. Ti can be stubborn, because it is analyzing via logic, which naturally leads to answer that is logical for the person, hence the thought has a lot of credibility for ego and the person will be stubborn at accepting a view that is contradicting the logic.

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Here is another very interesting article. I encourage that you read both your socionics P and J varient. So for example if you are INFP read Ni-Fe and Fi-Ne.
    http://psychclassics.yorku.ca/Jung/types.htm
    thats not really an article, its an chapter from jungs book. jung didnt use the type codes with J or P, he used words rational/judging and irrational/perceiving about functions and since he typed based on first function, he called Fi dom for example a rational type while Ni dom he called irrational. you see the words rational and irrational are words to describe functions in jungs model, while in MBTI/socionics J/P are used as an indicator of function preferences because its easier to say INTP than introverted thinking with extraverted intuition, introverted sensation and extraverted feeling. so the J/P in MBTI/socionics doesent really matter on anything else than whats easier way to squeeze more info on less letters. imo MBTI does this better, since it acknowledges the similarities in character(how they think and behave similarily) between NeTi type and TiNe type, while socionics way of writing the functions with less letters(type code) causes an similarity in code between ENTP and INTp(MBTI INTJ), when the actual content of this code(functions) are totally opposite.

    but i think the easiest way for type codes would be ITN(introverted thinking with intuition), ENT(extraverted intuition with thinking), ETS(extraverted thinking with sensation), INT(introverted intuition with thinking) etc. or TiNe NeTi SeFi etc
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    didnt read the article, but Ti isnt some entity that is stubborn or Se some entity that is forceful. Ti can be stubborn, because it is analyzing via logic, which naturally leads to answer that is logical for the person, hence the thought has a lot of credibility for ego and the person will be stubborn at accepting a view that is contradicting the logic.
    Ti in socionics means subjective thinking in that it has to go through the persons subjective process before it is accepted in their mental schema, this makes Ti stubborn. This is why IXTJs are very much traditional in their thought process, this is why their character is very rigid and objective oriented.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    thats not really an article, its an chapter from jungs book. jung didnt use the type codes with J or P, he used words rational/judging and irrational/perceiving about functions and since he typed based on first function, he called Fi dom for example a rational type while Ni dom he called irrational. you see the words rational and irrational are words to describe functions in jungs model, while in MBTI/socionics J/P are used as an indicator of function preferences because its easier to say INTP than introverted thinking with extraverted intuition, introverted sensation and extraverted feeling. so the J/P in MBTI/socionics doesent really matter on anything else than whats easier way to squeeze more info on less letters. imo MBTI does this better, since it acknowledges the similarities in character(how they think and behave similarily) between NeTi type and TiNe type, while socionics way of writing the functions with less letters(type code) causes an similarity in code between ENTP and INTp(MBTI INTJ), when the actual content of this code(functions) are totally opposite.

    but i think the easiest way for type codes would be ITN(introverted thinking with intuition), ENT(extraverted intuition with thinking), ETS(extraverted thinking with sensation), INT(introverted intuition with thinking) etc. or TiNe NeTi SeFi etc
    Socionics and MBTi are different than each other you are meshing the two together. MBTI uses four letter codes while socionics uses three letter codes. This is because a rational in socionics is a "J" type and an Irrational is a "P" type, not "T" or "F" like in MBTI. A persons rationality is indicated by their behavior structure and not by their thinking or feeling preference. This is my point as to why IXTJs in socionics are TI doms it is because their behavior structure is rigid and stubborn their behavior follows a logical pattern(it is the same reason why much of the military are XTJS Te and Ti doms). IXTJ is not the same as an MBTI IXTP because the two theories use different forumulas to explain their types. In socionics Sensation and intuition doms have nothing to do with structure they are irrational because the person is dependent upon the external sensation and intuitive process.THis explains the person as more "free-flowing" and "in the moment" hense why intuitive and sensation dominant types are all socionics "p's."

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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Ti in socionics means subjective thinking in that it has to go through the persons subjective process before it is accepted in their mental schema, this makes Ti stubborn. This is why IXTJs are very much traditional in their thought process, this is why their character is very rigid and objective oriented.
    i know Ti is subjective process, its the same in MBTI and in jungs model, i kinda included the subjective thing on my post. or actually if we want to be more precise Ti(and other I functions) is moving towards the subjective and are motivated by the subjective factors, in Ti's case the subjective factors would be logic that makes sense to the person. you see its introverting(removing irrelevant factors, i.e abstracting) via thinking or extraverting(adding what seems relevant, i.e empathizing) via thinking.


    Socionics and MBTi are different than each other you are meshing the two together. MBTI uses four letter codes while socionics uses three letter codes. This is because a rational in socionics is a "J" type and an Irrational is a "P" type, not "T" or "F" like in MBTI. A persons rationality is indicated by their behavior structure and not by their thinking or feeling preference. This is my point as to why IXTJs in socionics are TI doms it is because their behavior structure is rigid and stubborn their behavior follows a logical pattern(it is the same reason why much of the military are XTJS Te and Ti doms). IXTJ is not the same as an MBTI IXTP because the two theories use different forumulas to explain their types. In socionics
    socionics.com says this "Ethical-Intuitive Intratim - INFj (The Empath)", so socionics uses 4 letter codes also, but has an addition of "Ethical-Intuitive Intratim" which would be EII, but most the time they use the 4 letter code.

    rational and irrational thing isnt T and F in MBTI or jung or any model. rational refers to intentional though process, while irrational refers to perception, in jungs model, MBTI and socionics.

    i dont agree that Ti doms thought process is stubborn or rigid, if an Ti dom is stubborn or rigid, it just means that the other party fails to provide the correct type of argument. when it comes to J(in MBTI) types, there is no convincing them by others in other way than to show proof, which imo is pretty stubborn. and the thought process is moving along with what has been (at least seemingly)proven, which imo is more rigid than Ti doms way of thinking. when it comes to rigidness in behavior for example in TiNe vs NiTe, NiTe tend to be much much more rigid and structured around how they judge the external world.

    Sensation and intuition doms have nothing to do with structure they are irrational because the person is dependent upon the external sensation and intuitive process.THis explains the person as more "free-flowing" and "in the moment" hense why intuitive and sensation dominant types are all socionics "p's."
    this is the same in MBTI . its just that in MBTI the P/J is determined by extraverted perception vs extraverted judging being the first in order, because its the extraverted perception that causes people to relate to external world in perceptive manner and extraverted judgment that makes the person to follow the facts(or values) rigidly.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    socionics.com says this "Ethical-Intuitive Intratim - INFj (The Empath)", so socionics uses 4 letter codes also, but has an addition of "Ethical-Intuitive Intratim" which would be EII, but most the time they use the 4 letter code.
    No, have you even read anything socionics or jung related? It does the opposite it uses the three letter code, the addition is the four letter code to relate their theory to the mainstream MBTI culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    rational and irrational thing isnt T and F in MBTI or jung or any model. rational refers to intentional though process, while irrational refers to perception, in jungs model, MBTI and socionics.
    From what I understand JUng and socionics use this theory but from what I've seen MBTI doesn't use the words "rational" and "irrational" to explain j/p types.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    i dont agree that Ti doms thought process is stubborn or rigid, if an Ti dom is stubborn or rigid, it just means that the other party fails to provide the correct type of argument. when it comes to J(in MBTI) types, there is no convincing them by others in other way than to show proof, which imo is pretty stubborn. and the thought process is moving along with what has been (at least seemingly)proven, which imo is more rigid than Ti doms way of thinking. when it comes to rigidness in behavior for example in TiNe vs NiTe, NiTe tend to be much much more rigid and structured around how they judge the external world.
    I already said that you have to open your mind to new systems and ways of thinking when dealing with socionics. If your way of thinking is MBTI "manipulated" then you will think that Ti relates to clarity, critical thinking, etc when it is Te in socionics that relates to logical clarity and critical thinking.


    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    this is the same in MBTI . its just that in MBTI the P/J is determined by extraverted perception vs extraverted judging being the first in order, because its the extraverted perception that causes people to relate to external world in perceptive manner and extraverted judgment that makes the person to follow the facts(or values) rigidly.
    Si is very similar to Se in the way Jung explains it, judgment is made due to circumstances that appear in the outside world.

    Here is Jungs explanation of Si

    - "the priority of introverted sensation produces a definite type, which is characterized by certain peculiarities. It is an irrational type, inasmuch as its selection among occurrences is not primarily rational, but is guided rather [p. 501] by what just happens"

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