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  1. #11
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    I like socionics' view of the functions in some ways. I think Se is very misunderstood in mbti.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  2. #12
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    No, have you even read anything socionics or jung related? It does the opposite it uses the three letter code, the addition is the four letter code to relate their theory to the mainstream MBTI culture.
    i was referring to socionics. com using mostly the 4 letter code, go check out the website if you dont believe me.


    From what I understand JUng and socionics use this theory but from what I've seen MBTI doesn't use the words "rational" and "irrational" to explain j/p types.
    i know MBTI doesent use the words irrationa/rational, but jung does use those words interchangeably with judging and perceiving.


    I already said that you have to open your mind to new systems and ways of thinking when dealing with socionics. If your way of thinking is MBTI "manipulated" then you will think that Ti relates to clarity, critical thinking, etc when it is Te in socionics that relates to logical clarity and critical thinking.
    now you are just assuming that i go by the MBTI definitions and my thinking is "manipulated by MBTI", then start putting some words in my mouth about Ti and Te. if you want to understand my view on thinking, i can give you this quote from jung lexicon:

    Thinking
    The mental process of interpreting what is perceived. (Compare feeling.)


    In Jung’s model of typology, thinking is one of the four functions used for psychological orientation. Along with feeling, it is a rational function. If thinking is the primary function, then feeling is automatically the inferior function.

    Thinking, if it is to be real thinking and true to its own principle, must rigorously exclude feeling. This, of course, does not do away with the the fact that there are individuals whose thinking and feeling are on the same level, both being of equal motive power for consciousness. But in these cases there is also no question of a differentiated type, but merely of relatively undeveloped thinking and feeling.["General Description of the Types," CW 6, par. 667.]

    As a process of apperception, thinking may be active or passive.

    Active thinking is an act of the will, passive thinking is a mere occurrence. In the former case, I submit the contents of ideation to a voluntary act of judgment; in the latter, conceptual connections establish themselves of their own accord, and judgments are formed that may even contradict my intention. . . . Active thinking, accordingly, would correspond to my concept of directed thinking. Passive thinking . . . I would call . . . intuitive thinking.["Definitions," ibid., par. 830.]

    The capacity for directed thinking I call intellect; the capacity for passive or undirected thinking I call intellectual intuition.[Ibid., par. 832.]

    Si is very similar to Se in the way Jung explains it, judgment is made due to circumstances that appear in the outside world.

    Here is Jungs explanation of Si

    - "the priority of introverted sensation produces a definite type, which is characterized by certain peculiarities. It is an irrational type, inasmuch as its selection among occurrences is not primarily rational, but is guided rather [p. 501] by what just happens"
    in jungs view Si and Se arent very similar, sure they are both sensation. the quote you gave about "jungs explanation of Si" is first of all about Si type, not Si function and doesent really explain anything much anyways..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  3. #13
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I like socionics' view of the functions in some ways. I think Se is very misunderstood in mbti.
    I think Se is misunderstood in both MBTI and socionics. In socionics it is given the connotation of power or will power. I don't think this is right.

  4. #14
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sulfit View Post
    I think Se is misunderstood in both MBTI and socionics. In socionics it is given the connotation of power or will power. I don't think this is right.
    I think it is connected to drive. Perhaps that's just because of the area I live in. You can definitely see how INxx types have the least resilient response to stress.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  5. #15
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UniqueMixture View Post
    I think it is connected to drive. Perhaps that's just because of the area I live in. You can definitely see how INxx types have the least resilient response to stress.
    hmm, I thought INTPs are very resilient to stress. I go on hiking expeditions where sometimes I haven't eaten for days and can not sleep for a couple of nights without aid of coffee and still retain some sanity

  6. #16
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    I think their Ni description is very interesting. I find that INTJs and INFJs can get stubbornly attached to one idea. It says that Ni-types are looking for "wholeness" of situation, would explain why they do it.

    Ni as leading function in IEI (INFp; Esenin) and ILI (INTp; Balzac) - this person considers himself to be very ideological, consistent, principled, and is very conservative in this. Becomes irritated by those who criticize his ideas. He lives by the "wholeness" of the internal situation.

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