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  1. #31
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Wikisocion or http://www.socionics.us/ are good starts. The first is community run, the second is run by an American who learned it while in Russia. Socionics.com has some funny stuff, but a lot of it is just the brainchild of the site runner (Sergei Ganin).

    Socionics has always used LSI/SLI/SEI/etc.. It was never an offshoot of MBTI. It was developed almost in tandem, with no knowledge from Myers (and no knowledge of Augusta, on Myers' part). You can't really blame it for what it's not.

    The Socionics.com writer (Sergei Ganin) was the first to start a website in the West, I think. He used the MBTI jargon for types as a way to help people who were already familiar with that system.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Wikisocion or http://www.socionics.us/ are good starts. The first is community run, the second is run by an American who learned it while in Russia. Socionics.com has some funny stuff, but a lot of it is just the brainchild of the site runner (Sergei Ganin).

    Socionics has always used LSI/SLI/SEI/etc.. It was never an offshoot of MBTI. It was developed almost in tandem, with no knowledge from Myers (and no knowledge of Augusta, on Myers' part). You can't really blame it for what it's not.

    The Socionics.com writer (Sergei Ganin) was the first to start a website in the West, I think. He used the MBTI jargon for types as a way to help people who were already familiar with that system.
    Thanks for that. The deeper I go into this topic, the more it becomes kryptonite to me. Not tonight.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #33
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Tell me one thing. Whats wrong about deciding the J in type code based on relation to external world instead just dom function? The way MBTI does it is far superior on many things.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  4. #34
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Tell me one thing. Whats wrong about deciding the J in type code based on relation to external world instead just dom function? The way MBTI does it is far superior on many things.
    I'm not disagreeing with either method of using J or P. But the way people are thinking nowadays about functions sounds more like Socionics nomenclature. It is Socionics, technically speaking.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #35
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I'm not disagreeing with either method of using J or P. But the way people are thinking nowadays about functions sounds more like Socionics nomenclature. It is Socionics, technically speaking.
    What makes you say that? I really dont see that..
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  6. #36
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    You pick strange titles for your topics

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    It's easy to castigate something as "bad" based on one aspect, even a minor one. With Socionics, it is the "typing by face" aspect. Typing by face is an unproven method of typology. But it isn't specific to Socionics, and in fact I've known some Enneagrammists to base e-type on facial features.
    Yeah that was getting annoying for a while when there was all that stuff trashing socionics just because of the face typing thing. I'm very skeptical of face typing too but that has almost nothing to do with socionics as a whole.

    Socionics has done something right, however; and that is, to change the nomenclature by which types are named. INTP in Socionics theory is INTj. This is the way things are going anyway, even in MBTI circles. The J is nothing more than to place dominance on Thinking. Every dominant F/T type gets a j, and every dominant S/N type gets pegged with a p.
    Not only this, but the 'functions' themselves are defined a little differently.... they're less simplified and some of it seems to retain more of a Jungian essence. But then socionics does also seem to stray into behavioral stuff...

    The socionics j/p is good for highlighting the perceiveryness of Pi types and whatnot, but then it also misses their outwardly judginess. So whichever system you use, you are missing a little of something.

    For some, Se has even been limited to merely "looking." Such confusion has arisen from this function talk that even an intellectual such as Carl Jung is considered by some - an ISTP, as if he were some motorcycle mechanic or something.
    Wait what? Agreed on the ridiculous simplication of Se but who is it that's saying that Jung was like a motorcycle mechanic?

    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    That's the sucky part about it. LSI, LII, LSD, all that confusing nomenclature pretty much repels me from getting into this.
    It's really not complicated.... it's even cutting it down to three letters

    The cool thing though is that you don't even have to use letters and world languages with socionics, there are pretty shapes you can use to communicate the same things. Ta-da! The letter problem and the language barrier gone! (If only I had shapes on my keyboard....there's probably somewhere you can copypaste them from)

  7. #37
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    What makes you say that? I really dont see that..
    It's all explained in the OP.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #38
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    You pick strange titles for your topics
    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Yeah that was getting annoying for a while when there was all that stuff trashing socionics just because of the face typing thing. I'm very skeptical of face typing too but that has almost nothing to do with socionics as a whole.
    That's what I said up front in the OP.


    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Not only this, but the 'functions' themselves are defined a little differently.... they're less simplified and some of it seems to retain more of a Jungian essence. But then socionics does also seem to stray into behavioral stuff...

    The socionics j/p is good for highlighting the perceiveryness of Pi types and whatnot, but then it also misses their outwardly judginess. So whichever system you use, you are missing a little of something.
    Is the Ti type really perceptive?


    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Wait what? Agreed on the ridiculous simplication of Se but who is it that's saying that Jung was like a motorcycle mechanic?
    It was just a little technique called 'reductio ad absurdum.' If Jung was an ISTP, then why was he such an NT type of writer and not an ST type of - you tell me. But professions listed for the ISTP include things like graphical design, which makes sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    It's really not complicated.... it's even cutting it down to three letters
    Agreed, it gets simpler with a little effort. It would be easier to say that the I/E always goes last, as in LII being Logical Intuitive Introrim. And you messed up on the Extrorim.

    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    L-Logical (aka thinking)
    S-Sensing
    I (not as last letter)- Intuitive
    I (as last letter)-Introrim (introvert)
    E(not as last letter)-Ethical (aka feeling)
    E(not as last letter)-Extrorim (aka extravert)

    (correct if I got something wrong there)
    I did!

    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    The cool thing though is that you don't even have to use letters and world languages with socionics, there are pretty shapes you can use to communicate the same things. Ta-da! The letter problem and the language barrier gone! (If only I had shapes on my keyboard....there's probably somewhere you can copypaste them from)
    A universal typology language: who knew?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #39
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    It was just a little technique called 'reductio ad absurdum.' If Jung was an ISTP, then why was he such an NT type of writer and not an ST - you name it. Professions listed for the ISTP include things like graphical design, which makes sense.
    It might make a little sense, but people aren't gimped just because of a type. We're all human beings, first and foremost.

    I guess this boils down to how big of a deal you want to make of Type itself. Personally, I just think of it as Preferences. And just a model of the world of personalities. Not the actual world of personalities, which is far more dynamic and varied. It might urge things in a general direction that would include things like graphical design (among hundreds of similar things), but even Myers herself thought it was incorrect to single out careers for people. She was appalled that people were even using her system to hire and fire employees.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    It might make a little sense, but people aren't gimped just because of a type. We're all human beings, first and foremost.

    I guess this boils down to how big of a deal you want to make of Type itself. Personally, I just think of it as Preferences. And just a model of the world of personalities. Not the actual world of personalities, which is far more dynamic and varied. It might urge things in a general direction that would include things like graphical design (among hundreds of similar things), but even Myers herself thought it was incorrect to single out careers for people. She was appalled that people were even using her system to hire and fire employees.
    That's different. But she wanted it to be used for career decision-making. I agree that it doesn't have to lock me into a set of similar professions. It's just a method for helping decide on a general career path that's been blown way out of proportion.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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