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  1. #1
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Default Socionics and Quadrable's--Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta

    I'm trying to understand why/how these quadrable's exist? What do these groups share in common that makes it easy to let their guards down as well as have great relationships with one another?

    Any insight?

    ALPHA quadrable celebrities
    ENTp, ISFp, ESFj and INTj celebrities...

    BETA quadrable celebrities
    ENFj, ISTj, ESTp and INFp celebrities...

    GAMMA quadrable celebrities
    ESFp, INTp, ENTj and ISFj celebrities...

    DELTA quadrable celebrities
    ESTj, INFj, ENFp and ISTp celebrities...
    The socion (all 16 types) breaks up into four quadras of four types apiece. Each quadra consists of two dual pairs and contains the same four intertype relations — identity, duality, activation, and mirror. Each type within a quadra has the same four information elements in its ego and super-id blocks. This means that people from the same quadra share many of the same unspoken values. They can let down their guard around each other and be themselves without worrying that others will think poorly of them.

    Individuals of the same quadra strive for a world where their four leading information elements are brought to the forefront and given the greatest freedom of expression while the other four are subdued and made to serve the leading four.

    Informal small groups — such as friends that do something together regularly — tend to gravitate around a certain quadra that the greatest number of group members belong to. It is common to have "stragglers" — one or more people from other quadras that come along because they share a common interest and are willing to be a bit peripheral.

    In the chart below, the order of elements is not significant. Note that all adjacent quadras share two dominant elements, while opposing quadras (1 and 3; 2 and 4) share no dominant elements. Click on the links to read descriptions of each quadra below.
    quadra types
    (see type chart) dominant
    elements subdued
    elements
    1. Alpha ILE, SEI, ESE, LII extraverted intuition extraverted ethics introverted sensing introverted logic extraverted sensing extraverted logic introverted intuition introverted ethics
    2. Beta EIE, LSI, SLE, IEI extraverted ethics extraverted sensing introverted logic introverted intuition extraverted logic extraverted intuition introverted ethics introverted sensing
    3. Gamma SEE, ILI, LIE, ESI extraverted sensing extraverted logic introverted intuition introverted ethics extraverted intuition extraverted ethics introverted sensing introverted logic
    4. Delta LSE, EII, IEE, SLI extraverted logic extraverted intuition introverted ethics introverted sensing extraverted ethics extraverted sensing introverted logic introverted intuition


    The descriptions below are meant to hold true for all types within the quadra, not just those that have the elements shown as their first or second function. The phrase "X blocked with Y" means that two elements are always found in the same block of the socionic model of the psyche, implying that these aspects of reality are interconnected in the given quadra.

    1. Alpha Quadra [top]

    extraverted intuition blocked with introverted logic:
    Types from the Alpha Quadra enjoy freely exchanging new ideas and theories as a form of intellectual leisure. They like to systematize knowledge and create new categories and speculative hypotheses without necessarily intending to see their theories tested or implemented (subdued extraverted logic).

    extraverted ethics blocked with introverted sensing:
    This quadra enjoys carefree emotional expression and sensory delights and is able to derive never-ending pleasure from simple things — funny stories, exotic dishes, family picnics and group outings, and visual and performing arts.

    Subdued elements:
    The Alpha Quadra is especially sensitive to and critical of mercantilistic views, ostentatious displays of wealth and status symbols, rude and aggressive behavior, moral criticism, and people who suggest they are wasting their time on unproductive things.

    Typical Alpha quadra group behavior:
    Spontaneous, disorganized activities "for the fun of it." Light-hearted, non-serious atmosphere with very few "heavy" moments. Skipping from topic to topic without focusing on the implementation of conclusions reached.

    2. Beta Quadra [top]

    extraverted ethics blocked with introverted intuition:
    This quadra encourages dramatic self-expression with elements of theatricism and melodrama. They enjoy finding artistic means to express romantic, abstract ideals and feelings.

    extraverted sensing blocked with introverted logic:
    Types from the Beta Quadra are drawn to hierarchical structures that increase their personal power. They like to see convictions and beliefs materialized physically in the real world. They are often starkly blunt in their views and like "strong" humor.

    Subdued elements:
    The Beta Quadra is especially sensitive to and critical of earthiness, pronounced pragmatism, emotional indifference, and people who analyze their psychology and motives behind their backs.

    Typical Beta quadra group behavior:
    Lengthy, theatrical monologues. Loud, hearty laughter. Importance given to group rituals such as those related to food and drink. Displays of great generosity and inclusion, but with the demand of emotional involvement in group. Rowdiness. Generally theatrical atmosphere, but with periodic moments of "dead seriousness."

    3. Gamma Quadra [top]

    extraverted sensing blocked with introverted ethics:
    Types from the Gamma Quadra have a realistic, materialistic outlook on life, relationships, and society and tend to view life as a marketplace where forcefulness, positive thinking, social maneuvering, hustle and bustle, and direct humor get you where you need to go.

    extraverted logic blocked with introverted intuition:
    This quadra believes that ideas and fortuitous events should be turned into something profitable and marketable — something that does some kind of work for people. The Gamma Quadra values self-sacrifice in the name of serving society.

    Subdued elements:
    The Gamma Quadra looks down on indulging in self-centered pleasures and in engaging in activities unrelated to society's needs.

    Typical Gamma quadra group behavior:
    Trading jokes on materialistic topics (money, sex, winning and losing). Rowdiness and drivenness. Prefer socializing in smaller groups (about six people or less) and planning and carrying out productive activities together.

    4. Delta Quadra [top]

    extraverted logic blocked with introverted sensing:
    Types from the Delta Quadra value pragmatism, hard work, beautifully functional items, and earthy humor and enjoy "productive" relationships where people do projects together. They are usually emotionally subdued and like to discuss topics seriously with the intention of implementing their conclusions.

    extraverted intuition blocked with introverted ethics:
    Types of this quadra enjoy discussing people, internal motivation, and self-development. They believe in peaceful self-government without coercion and in the inherent potential of each human being for personal fulfillment.

    Subdued elements:
    The Delta Quadra doesn't appreciate high ideals or abstractions that don't relate well to real life. They also don't like large institutions or power systems that do not take into consideration the interests of separate individuals.

    Typical Delta quadra group behavior:
    Discussion of interesting facts about people and places. Enjoy group outdoor activities. "Live and let live" attitude. Engage only in "productive" activities and discussions. Prefer smaller groups. Emotionally subdued; generally serious, but with periodic funny moments.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  2. #2
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Perhaps I can figure this out on my own... let's see...

    ENTP--Ne/Ti/Fe/Si
    ISFP--Fi/Se/Ni/Te
    ESFJ--Fe/Si/Ne/Ti
    INTJ--Ni/Te/Fi/Se

    None of us share any of the same functions... there fore none of our functions compete... but rather supplement the others?

    I have noticed I get along very very well with these particular types, and for the same reasons MBTI offered...

    for me as an ISFP, the ENTP is the novelty personality--we're intriguingly different to one another.
    for me with an ESFJ--we're contrast personalities, being point and counterpoint on each function.
    for me with an INTJ--supplement relationship, like pal's (which for me is an ESFP) but farther removed, each adding to the others strength.


    and for the ENTP, the INTJ is his contrast, the ESFJ is his supplement, and then the ISFP--the novelty.

    and then so on...

    and where two of use are similar in primary function, the other two are similar in their tertiary function. ISFP and ESFJ leading in feeling function, but INTJ and ENTP using it in tertiary. while INTJ and ENTP lead with intuitive functions, ISFP and ESFJ have it as a tertiary...

    i still don't get it. do ISFPs and ESFJs bring out a softer side in INTJs and ENTPs? i've noticed this myself... but it's funny to see it as a grouping.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  3. #3
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Before you get into Socionics, it might be best to forget about MBTI. Generally speaking, it's not drastically different, but there's enough differences in function order/definitions that you'll only get confused if you keep MBTI in your head at the same time.

    Just to illustrate, Socionics ISFps are Si-Fe-Ni-Te. Not Se-Fi-Ni-Te

    INTj is Ti-Ne-Fi-Se

    There are reasons for this, but I'm really tired atm Wikisocon will help though.

  4. #4
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Before you get into Socionics, it might be best to forget about MBTI. Generally speaking, it's not drastically different, but there's enough differences in function order/definitions that you'll only get confused if you keep MBTI in your head at the same time.

    Just to illustrate, Socionics ISFps are Si-Fe-Ni-Te. Not Se-Fi-Ni-Te

    INTj is Ti-Ne-Fi-Se

    There are reasons for this, but I'm really tired atm Wikisocon will help though.
    i took a socionics test prior to reading... but didn't realize the functions were different. i suppose i'll have to read their descriptions for the functions then... cause Si/Fe just doesn't sound very right in MBTI terms for me.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  5. #5
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Members of the same quadra value similar functions. Valued functions are functions 1, 2, 5, and 6 in socionics model A.

    Functions 1 (base) & 2 (creative) make up the ego block. They are strong functions that the person also values.

    Functions 5 (dual seeking) & 6 (hidden agenda) make up the Super ID block. They are weak functions but we value them in other people. Thus we seek others who have these functions in their ego block.

    According to Wikisocion regarding quadras:

    A possible explanation for quadra values is that the valued elements are either in the ego functions, which are conscious and strong, or the Super-Id functions, which are unconscious and weak. Because one naturally likes to have conscious control in the area of their strengths, the ego functions are valued. Similarly, because conscious engagement of one's weaknesses is painful, the conscious Super-Ego functions are subdued, and the unconscious super-id functions valued. This is directly related to the idea of complementarity, which implies that duals allow the best possible environment for each other to develop their strengths, and at the same time, support their weaknesses in a healthy way.


    Members of the alpha quadra (INTj/LII, ENTp/ILE, ISFp/SEI, ESFj/ESE) value Ti, Ne, Fe, and Si

    Members of the beta quadra (ISTj/LSI, ESTp/SLE, INFp/IEI, ENFj/EIE) value Ti, Se, Fe, and Ni

    Members of the gamma quadra (INTp/ILI, ENTj/LIE, ISFj/ESI, ESFp/SEE) value Ni, Te, Se, and Fi

    Members of the delta quadra (ISTp/SLI, ESTj/LSE, INFj/EII, ENFp/IEE) value Si, Te, Ne, and Fi
    INtp
    5w6 or 9w1 sp/so/sx, I think
    Ravenclaw/Hufflepuff
    Neutral Good
    LII-Ne




  6. #6
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Weak/valued are basically what we know of as the tertiary and inferior.

    All four "valued" are what Beebe calls "ego-syntonic", and the "subdued" are "ego-dystonic" or the shadows.
    While I have not seen any well-known theorist directly spell this out, the "strong/weak" divide is implicitly apparent in the extended MBTI theory, where the dominant ("hero") and aux ("parent") are more mature and confident; the tertiary ("child") and inferior ("anima") are more immature and vulnerable. The shadows basically parallel these, with the Oppositional (negative hero) and Witch/Senex (critical parent) being more confident, but in a negative way, and the Trickster (negative child) and Demon (negative anima) compensating for vulnerability in a very reactive way.

    Heres a way we can think of them:
    1/2: diamonds: the ego's most cherished goals (strong/valued)
    3/4: hearts: the vulnerable, innocent area (weak/valued)
    5/6: ♠ spades (sharp weapon; strong/subdued)
    7/8: ♣ clubs (blunt weapon; weak/subdued)

    Type A is similar to Lenore Thomson's "lasagna" model, in that the functions usually listed as #3 and 4 are actually #7 and 8 in Beebe's model (the "shadows" of 3 & 4). This threw me off as well, so INTj (TiNeFiSe) looked like a cross between INTJ and INTP, as the first two fit INTP, but the second two fit INTJ , but the second two are not claimed to be the tertiary and inferior; they are the weak/subdued, and would fit the Trickster and Demon or "right brain alternatives" (even if they are not described that way), thus completely matching MBTI INTP. (Where the ambiguity really occurs is in the descriptions of function-attitudes themselves, where Ti and Ne are said to behave more like Te and Ni, respectively; at least in some people's claims).

    So the Quadras are just a neat grouping of the four types that share the same four ego-syntonic functions.
    They basically pair up Keirsey's "Intelligence Variants":

    (In MBTI/Keirsey notation):
    Alpha: SFJ/NTP
    Beta: NFJ/STP
    Gamma: SFP/NTJ
    Delta: NFP/STJ
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  7. #7
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    hey! thanks for the input, guys. much appreciated.

    i've got to go for now, but will return to it later tonight.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  8. #8
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    hey! thanks for the input, guys. much appreciated.

    i've got to go for now, but will return to it later tonight.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  9. #9
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    So the Quadras are just a neat grouping of the four types that share the same four ego-syntonic functions.
    They basically pair up Keirsey's "Intelligence Variants":

    (In MBTI/Keirsey notation):
    Alpha: SFJ/NTP
    Beta: NFJ/STP
    Gamma: SFP/NTJ
    Delta: NFP/STJ
    you lost me here... i don't understand this chart above.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  10. #10
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    Perhaps I can figure this out on my own... let's see...

    ENTP--Ne/Ti/Fe/Si
    ISFP--Fi/Se/Ni/Te
    ESFJ--Fe/Si/Ne/Ti
    INTJ--Ni/Te/Fi/Se

    None of us share any of the same functions... there fore none of our functions compete... but rather supplement the others?

    I have noticed I get along very very well with these particular types, and for the same reasons MBTI offered...

    for me as an ISFP, the ENTP is the novelty personality--we're intriguingly different to one another.
    for me with an ESFJ--we're contrast personalities, being point and counterpoint on each function.
    for me with an INTJ--supplement relationship, like pal's (which for me is an ESFP) but farther removed, each adding to the others strength.


    and for the ENTP, the INTJ is his contrast, the ESFJ is his supplement, and then the ISFP--the novelty.

    and then so on...

    and where two of use are similar in primary function, the other two are similar in their tertiary function. ISFP and ESFJ leading in feeling function, but INTJ and ENTP using it in tertiary. while INTJ and ENTP lead with intuitive functions, ISFP and ESFJ have it as a tertiary...

    i still don't get it. do ISFPs and ESFJs bring out a softer side in INTJs and ENTPs? i've noticed this myself... but it's funny to see it as a grouping.
    Yeah, a quadra is formed by two given types whose base and creative are each other base and creative, plust their two dual types (that's just one definition, you can start where you want, of course). They're not easy to understand on a practical level, because it seems that intra-quadra interactions become smooth with no strong effort from either side, thus it's hard to analytically decompose how each type helps the others.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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