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  1. #1
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Default Socionics and MBTI

    What's the difference??
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

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    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    Not much. They do, however, compliment each other pretty conveniently.

    thinking of you

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    If you look at the bottom of this page under "Similar Threads", you'll see a lot of threads on this topic. I'd recommend reading those.

    But the first thing you should know is that Socionics calls you a J if your dominant function is a Judging function (T or F) and P if your dominant function is a Perceiving function (N or S).

    This is in contrast with MBTI, which calls you a J if your first Judging function (whether in the dominant or auxiliary) is extroverted and P if your first Judging function is introverted.

    Therefore, if you look at just that notational differences, they types should line up something like this:

    MBTI - Socionics
    ENTJ - ENTj
    INTJ - INTp
    ENTP - ENTp
    INTP - INTj

    ENFJ - ENFj
    INFJ - INFp
    ENFP - ENFp
    INFP - INFj

    ESTJ - ESTj
    ISTJ - ISTp
    ESFJ - ESFj]
    ISFJ - ISFp

    ESTP - ESTp
    ISTP - ISTj
    ESFP - ESFp
    ISFP - ISFj

    There are some differences other than this as well, particularly in how they break up the functions, but I'm not learned enough in Socionics to give you too accurate an account of these.

  4. #4
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    There are some differences other than this as well, particularly in how they break up the functions, but I'm not learned enough in Socionics to give you too accurate an account of these.
    I've tried to read up as much as I can, and at the end of the day, the J/P switch works in my case. I used to question resolving the issue like that (it seemed too simple), but in many cases, it is that simple. Fi and Ti dom types such as INFj and INTj are a lot more like INFP and INTP than not. People should still read up and double check the socionics description though. edit: Oh, but it does go without mentioning that there are different subtypes to confuse matters. Some socionics theories subscribe to it, some don't.

  5. #5
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    If you look at the bottom of this page under "Similar Threads", you'll see a lot of threads on this topic. I'd recommend reading those.

    But the first thing you should know is that Socionics calls you a J if your dominant function is a Judging function (T or F) and P if your dominant function is a Perceiving function (N or S).

    This is in contrast with MBTI, which calls you a J if your first Judging function (whether in the dominant or auxiliary) is extroverted and P if your first Judging function is introverted.

    Therefore, if you look at just that notational differences, they types should line up something like this:

    MBTI - Socionics
    ENTJ - ENTj
    INTJ - INTp
    ENTP - ENTp
    INTP - INTj

    ENFJ - ENFj
    INFJ - INFp
    ENFP - ENFp
    INFP - INFj

    ESTJ - ESTj
    ISTJ - ISTp
    ESFJ - ESFj]
    ISFJ - ISFp

    ESTP - ESTp
    ISTP - ISTj
    ESFP - ESFp
    ISFP - ISFj

    There are some differences other than this as well, particularly in how they break up the functions, but I'm not learned enough in Socionics to give you too accurate an account of these.
    that doesn't make much sense in my wee wittle head. :confused:

    i was just pondering left brained and right brained functions... and it just doesn't fit in with that model.

    but i will look into those threads!
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    that doesn't make much sense in my wee wittle head. :confused:
    Just realize this:

    MBTI calls you a J if, in your first two functions, your Judging function is extroverted (Te or Fe).

    Therefore, the following types are called Js under MBTI's labeling system:

    ENTJ: TeNi
    INTJ: NiTe
    ENFJ: FeNi
    INFJ: NiFe
    ESTJ: TeSi
    ISTJ: SiTe
    ESFJ: FeSi
    ISFJ: SiFe

    Notice how all eight J-types under MBTI's notation system have extroverted judging functions (Te or Fe) in their first two functions?

    Now here are all the P-types under MBTI's notation system:

    ENTP: NeTi
    INTP: TiNe
    ENFP: NeFi
    INFP: FiNe
    ESTP: SeTi
    ISTP: TiSe
    ESFP: SeFi
    ISFP: FiSe

    Notice how all the P-types under MBTI's notation system have extroverted perceiving functions (Ne or Se) in their first two functions, which, in turn, means they have introverted Judging functions (Ti or Fi) in their first two functions?

    When they first put together the MBTI's labeling system, they had to decide on what rules they were going to use to determine the 4th letter, and the rules they decided on were:

    1) that if you used an extroverted Judging function in your first two functions, then you were going to be called a Judger.

    2) that if you used an extroverted Perceiving function in your first two functions, then you were going to be called a Perceiver.

    Hence, the current 4-lettered MBTI system, and the way it works.

    Let me know once you understand this, and then I'll explain how Socionics differs (i.e., how they decided to use different rules for determining the 4th letter).

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    i was just pondering left brained and right brained functions... and it just doesn't fit in with that model.
    Umm, whose theory of left-brained and right-brained functions were you using?

    Lenore Thomson's theory says it's one way, but other peoples' (Dario Nardi, MindFrames, et al) theories say differently.

    I believe in the other peoples' theories...

    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    but i will look into those threads!
    Just an fyi: I've never read any of those threads, so I don't know whether they're any good.

    I do, however, know that I can explain the primary difference to you.

  7. #7
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Socionics describes the dichotomies and the functions somewhat differently than MBTI. Therefore there is not necessarily a 1:1 correspondence between MBTI and socionic type. The J/P switiching that Zarathustra mentioned works some but not all of the time. With MBTI INTPs, I've noticed that about half of them identify best with socionics INTp and the other half identify best with socionics INTj. A small fraction identify best with another socionics type, usually ENTp.

    I recommend this site as an introduction to socionics, particularly the section on Model A.

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...ikisocion_home
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    Socionics describes the dichotomies and the functions somewhat differently than MBTI. Therefore there is not necessarily a 1:1 correspondence between MBTI and socionic type.
    This is true, insofar as I know, in that Model A is different than the MBTI model.

    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    The J/P switiching that Zarathustra mentioned works some but not all of the time. With MBTI INTPs, I've noticed that about half of them identify best with socionics INTp and the other half identify best with socionics INTj. A small fraction identify best with another socionics type, usually ENTp.
    However, I think that the reason you find about half of MBTI INTPs (mis)identifying with Socionics INTp is that half of them don't know about/understand the difference in notation/labeling between MBTI and Socionics.

    Socionics INTp (i.e., MBTI INTJ) is still an Ni-dom and Te-aux.

    And the description of those functions in Socionics is not so different that INTPs would magically jump over to them instead of preferring Ti and Ne.

    The reason that some MBTI INTPs might identify as Socionics ENTps is simple: they're close on the introvert-extrovert divide (I myself am an xNTJ -- about 50/50 introversion/extroversion, but I'm an Ni-dom).

    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    I recommend this site as an introduction to socionics, particularly the section on Model A.

    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...ikisocion_home

  9. #9
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuchIrony View Post
    Socionics describes the dichotomies and the functions somewhat differently than MBTI.
    This is what I've noticed as well, and why the J/P switch does not work for me.

    I personally find Socionic's way of defining Fi markedly different from Jung, and I identify waaaay more with Jungian Fi, and very little with Socionics Fi. Interestingly, I do relate to how Fi is described in the ILI (INTp) type, and I identify with that type in some descriptions also, but that would make me NiTe . IEI (INFp or NiFe) is also a decent match, but I still get hung up on the Fe aspect. In any case, none of the types suit me as well as INFP in MBTI, and especially not as well as the Fi type of Jungian theory.

    Another thing I noted is that not only does Socionics label all dominant judging types Js (even if they use Pe), it associates "J behavior" with them, the way MBTI associates it with Je types (even if they are Pi-dom). This is also why INFj (EII or FiNe) does not suit me; I have "P" behavior and demeanor. It makes more sense to me that the extroverted function is what influences this aspect; and Ji functions create very different "structure" from Je anyway (so to speak).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  10. #10
    jump sleuthiness's Avatar
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    They describe all 4 sides of the same building, but with 2 half a story shorter, windows misaligned.

    thinking of you

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