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  1. #1
    Gotta catch you all! Blackmail!'s Avatar
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    Default Difference in type between MBTI and Socionics

    Hello!


    I'm sure this subject has been repeated over and over again, so if ever you have a good link about it, please, feel free.

    The Socionics mainframe seems very, very odd (and some aspects just make me laugh, especially the physical description), yet it looks superficially similar to some aspects of the MBTI.
    Yet, I've read many people complaining that their Judging/Perceiving scores were in fact inverted when they compared MBTI and Socionics. For instance, many INTP were in fact INTj, and vice versa (INTp becoming INTj).

    How could that be? Could you describe me how and why?

    This is confusing. Well, Socionics always were.
    "A man who only drinks water has a secret to hide from his fellow-men" -Baudelaire

    7w8 SCUxI

  2. #2
    garbage
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    They're two different systems with different descriptions that have some correlations in their categories due to the fact that both are derived from Jung's work, and the four-letter labels were only added to Socionics in order to make it digestible here in the states

    Kind of like how Christmas co-opted familiar Pagan holidays


    Someone go find that table with the correlations between MBTI and Socionics types

    Edit: here



    also this just uh avoid that part of my post where I talk about being ENTp

  3. #3
    Controlled Mischief StephMC's Avatar
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    ^ Why have I not seen this chart before... it's awesome! Thanks Mister Eyebrows :P
    I have an inner monologue that sounds strikingly similar to something off Animal Planet.

  4. #4
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackmail! View Post
    Hello!


    I'm sure this subject has been repeated over and over again, so if ever you have a good link about it, please, feel free.

    The Socionics mainframe seems very, very odd (and some aspects just make me laugh, especially the physical description), yet it looks superficially similar to some aspects of the MBTI.
    Yet, I've read many people complaining that their Judging/Perceiving scores were in fact inverted when they compared MBTI and Socionics. For instance, many INTP were in fact INTj, and vice versa (INTp becoming INTj).

    How could that be? Could you describe me how and why?

    This is confusing. Well, Socionics always were.
    In addition to what mister eyebrows said, the P/J in socionics refers to the primary function, not the first extroverted function. Incidently, this means that the expect correlations on Mister Eyebrows table are wrong for all the primary introverteds. INFP corresponds to INFj, as both have Fi + Ne as there first two functions.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    First find your most probable quadras. Then learn the functions. Then learn what the different function slots represent in each of the types in your probable quadras. Find the type that matches you the best. If no type matches well consider the other quadra types. If none of those fit then either you're an idiot, the theory is too abstract and vague, or it's just plain bunk; you get to choose which one you think fits best .

    But if you want to find a correlation between types, I read somewhere that all MBTI types should map to their Socionics type, with the exception of INTJs, INTPs, INFPs, and INFJs, which can switch the J/P...or not, depending on the person, which I tend to agree with.

    If you would rather have some information that is posted on a website because you consider stuff on a website more accurate then what comes out of my mouth then you can read this

    ...
    Another argument is that MBTI is in many ways a very different and less sophisticated theory than socionics, and that any attempt to definitively measure socionics type in terms of MBTI type is by nature flawed. Socionics was originally developed on the basis of intertype relations, which its dichotomies were chosen to reflect (unlike the dichotomies used in MBTI). Proponents of this viewpoint often acknowledge some correlation between the types (ie an MBTI ESTJ is more likely to be a socionics ST than NF) but usually assume that any type or most types are possible socionics types for a person with a specific MBTI type, and vice versa.
    The former view can be said to be more helpful for those looking into socionics after getting acquainted with Myers-Briggs, since despite the confusion when looking at functional ordering, as a rule the types as described in most Myers-Briggs profiles tend to resemble more the socionics types without the J/P shift. In addition, despite differences in definition, overall Myers-Briggs Judgement resembles more socionics Rationality, and its Perception more socionics Irrationality, than the other way around, so it makes no sense to say that a rational extroverted socionics type is closer to a judging socionics type, but the other way around for introverts.
    ...
    J/P switch - Wikisocion

  6. #6
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    There are also just enough subtle differnces in socionics as a whole that it's almost better to learn about it on it's own terms. In some ways, the types seem more fleshed out there, and to me, reflective of what I see for myself in different people I know.

  7. #7
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Sticks View Post
    But if you want to find a correlation between types, I read somewhere that all MBTI types should map to their Socionics type, with the exception of INTJs, INTPs, INFPs, and INFJs, which can switch the J/P...or not, depending on the person, which I tend to agree with.
    From my admittedly limited knowledge of Socionics, it seems slightly more complicated than that, because the different letter variables in Socionics map to different things than they do in MBTI. A rather glaring example of this contrast is Napoleon, who is portrayed as the archetype of Socionics type ESFp, despite being a rather blatant ENTJ.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    From my admittedly limited knowledge of Socionics, it seems slightly more complicated than that, because the different letter variables in Socionics map to different things than they do in MBTI. A rather glaring example of this contrast is Napoleon, who is portrayed as the archetype of Socionics type ESFp, despite being a rather blatant ENTJ.
    Well, considering the dude is dead and Socionics is heavily reliant on the behavior of the individual as opposed to how they view themselves, and we have only paintings and writings that can be interpreted to mean very different things by different minds to reference, we can't really make any conclusive assumptions. Do you have a link that gives a thorough analysis of the ESFp typing or is this mostly internet conjecture?

    This is an interesting point though. However, ILI(INTp), SEE(ESFp), LIE(ENTj), and ESI(ISFj) are all in the same quadra, which means they are going to value very similar things in their lives. Because of this, since we are going by written historical accounts of a man that arguably reached self-actualization, it's equally likely much emphasis was displayed and put on his duality functions around other people. An ENTj that displays their Se mobilizing function with their Fi suggestive very well could be confused with ESFp by third-hand accounts that don't know him very personally, especially since the man was very much in possession of the resources and power to indulge and surround his ego with anything he desired. So it's hard to say and I don't think something like this is important to get hung up on since it's so suggestive.

  9. #9
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    whenever i've looked at it, i've come to the conclusion that introverts flip j-p. extroverts stay the same. functions are the same. added features include type relations. i find the function descriptions on the socionics wiki to be among the best function descriptions out there.

  10. #10
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    The functions do not stay as true to Jungian theory as MBTI. You'll find their definitions vary enough to throw things off, so that a J/P switch for introverts is not cleanly made. There are also more behavioral associations made which directly contradict MBTI's patterns for types. IE. FiNe in MBTI presents a P face, meaning an INFP is prone to less external structure. Not so in Socionics - FiNe is J and acts in the way Js are expected to behave.

    I never test INFj and don't relate to FiNe in the same way I do in MBTI. The INFp description is often very accurate for me, and yet, the Fe function is still a mismatch for my aux function. A socionics enthusiast took it upon himself to assist me in finding my type, and decided I was ENFp - Fi subtype (which would make me seem more introverted). However, the idea of me being an extrovert in anyway shape or form is extremely humorous to me, as I am expressed introvert & always have been.

    I find Socionics a less satisfying system for describing personality, or at least MY personality.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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