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  1. #1
    Senior Member Urchin's Avatar
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    Default MBTI vs Socionics

    I'm a bit confused about something. As I understand it, the dominant functions of an INTP in the Myers-Briggs system is Ti, and the secondary is Ne. The P function (iNtuition) is extraverted, but the introverted function (Thinking) is Dominant.

    As I understand it, in the Socionics system, the INTp dominant function is Ni and secondary is Te. The Ti-Ne functions belong to the INTj.

    I'm using INTP as an example, but I would guess that this extends to the other types as well. What am I missing here? Should I be looking at them independantly based on functions or what?
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  2. #2
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    Socionics uses Ni, for example, as Introverted Perception (IxxP), and it is an introverted perception, so it would equate to INxP. Myers-Briggs look at P as having S or N preference directed in the outer world, and J as having T and F directed in the outer world. In Socionics, a P preference means that your dominant function is a perception function (Si, Se, Ni, Ne), directed either inward or outward.

    Myers-Briggs, Keirsey, and Socionics are the three branches of Jungian measurement, and they're each different and measure different things in different ways.

    All three measure things based on the same preference, but Myers-Briggs is more concerned with the inner self -- the way you see the world, and this is then correlated by career.

    Keirsey is more concerned with connecting Jungian theory to temperamental humors, and so Keirsey types are more about motivation.

    Socionics, I guess you can say, takes the least scientific stance in personality measurement. It's sort of a Jungian phrenology. It's not necessarily based on facial structure, but it's based on the appearance of a person's eyes, which also tends to have a correlation to how people think -- as they say, the eyes are the gateway to a man's soul.

    The Socionics assessment on Socionics.com is really more like an MBTI, because Socionics isn't interested in preferences, it measures type based on appearance and outer behavior, which is why it tends to be more spiritual than scientific (as in as scientific as psychology and psychometrics can be).

    Needless to say, the MBTI is the most practical assessment, since its goal is to help a person discover a career path, while Keirsey and Socionics focus solely on motivation and behavior, respectively.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Recluse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Socionics, I guess you can say, takes the least scientific stance in personality measurement. It's sort of a Jungian phrenology. It's not necessarily based on facial structure, but it's based on the appearance of a person's eyes, which also tends to have a correlation to how people think -- as they say, the eyes are the gateway to a man's soul.
    I'm going to have to go dig up your picture, Uberfuhrer, and take a close look at those eyes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recluse View Post
    I'm going to have to go dig up your picture, Uberfuhrer, and take a close look at those eyes.
    Here you go.

    I was helped by another member via PM. He said I most resembled an ENTp.

    (Or are you just being a smart ass?)

  5. #5
    Senior Member Recluse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Here you go.

    I was helped by another member via PM. He said I most resembled an ENTp.

    (Or are you just being a smart ass?)
    The shadows falling over your eyes make it hard to say for sure, but you look both calm and intense. I wouldn't class you as an ENTP, based on appearance. (He was being a smart ass. Kill him.)

    I read somewhere that if you visually divide somebody's face in half, you should be able to detect which emotions conflict most often within them. To me, the right side of your face seems coolly inquisitive while the left side seems angrily aloof. (But possibly it's just the glaring sunlight in your eyes that makes you look that way to me.)

    You should post a better picture.
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  6. #6
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urchin View Post
    I'm a bit confused about something. As I understand it, the dominant functions of an INTP in the Myers-Briggs system is Ti, and the secondary is Ne. The P function (iNtuition) is extraverted, but the introverted function (Thinking) is Dominant.

    As I understand it, in the Socionics system, the INTp dominant function is Ni and secondary is Te. The Ti-Ne functions belong to the INTj.

    I'm using INTP as an example, but I would guess that this extends to the other types as well. What am I missing here? Should I be looking at them independantly based on functions or what?
    Socionics and MBTI functions cannot be correlated precisely, which is why I'm working on adapting a Socionic subtype theory to MBTI. They are formulated differently. The interpretations of Jungian theory differ in subtle but important ways. Socionics is based more on information metabolism than on a person's motivation. The functions are even measured differently.

    Also, MBTI formulation bases rationality/irrationality (J/P) on the first extroverted function, while Socionics bases it on the dominant function irregardless of it's attitude.

    For some reason, I score as an LII on most Socionic tests, but I'm clearly not an INTx in MBTI, based on my interaction style. So the two often don't correlate, and I'm biased towards MBTI reasoning due to my higher familiarity with it. Also, test results are often disputed by independent experts who analyze type, and that appears to be the typing method of choice in Socionics.

  7. #7
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urchin View Post
    I'm a bit confused about something. As I understand it, the dominant functions of an INTP in the Myers-Briggs system is Ti, and the secondary is Ne. The P function (iNtuition) is extraverted, but the introverted function (Thinking) is Dominant.

    As I understand it, in the Socionics system, the INTp dominant function is Ni and secondary is Te. The Ti-Ne functions belong to the INTj.

    I'm using INTP as an example, but I would guess that this extends to the other types as well. What am I missing here? Should I be looking at them independantly based on functions or what?

    Socionics records Ti-Ne as INTJ because Ti is a judging function. Virtually the same system though different labels. EPs and EJs are recorded the same way because they start with an extroverted function. IJs and IPs are flip-flopped.

    For MBTI, a P is one that treats the external world with a perceiving function. Extroverted Intuition or Extroverted Sensing. For Socionics, a P is one that has a dominant perceiving function, be it introverted or extroverted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recluse View Post
    I read somewhere that if you visually divide somebody's face in half, you should be able to detect which emotions conflict most often within them. To me, the right side of your face seems coolly inquisitive while the left side seems angrily aloof. (But possibly it's just the glaring sunlight in your eyes that makes you look that way to me.)
    Let's just say that whenever the sun glares in my eye, the left side of my face always squints like that no matter what direction the sun is shining.

    And I'd think the coolly inquisitive expression is synonymous with ENTp character. What were you thinking I was? (Just curious.)

  9. #9
    Senior Member Recluse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uberfuhrer View Post
    Let's just say that whenever the sun glares in my eye, the left side of my face always squints like that no matter what direction the sun is shining.

    And I'd think the coolly inquisitive expression is synonymous with ENTp character. What were you thinking I was? (Just curious.)
    Well, you do look like an ENTp if the left side is the result of sun-squint, as you say. But I would like to see a better picture. I get bipolar vibes from that one.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Recluse View Post
    Well, you do look like an ENTp if the left side is the result of sun-squint, as you say. But I would like to see a better picture. I get bipolar vibes from that one.
    What does the left side look like (pretend the sun doesn't exist)?

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