Socionics is amazing

[527468]

I also wanted to use this opportunity to publicly screw MBTI. Screw you MBTI!

 

[527468]

well, i think you are right about the physical characteristics, from what i've read and correlated with types i know. BUT. it is WAY off when it comes to its relationship methodology!! it says i (infj) and intj would make good 'business partners' but not an effective relationship.....however, i'm in a pretty-damn-fabulous 21 year relationship with an intj. also, it says my duality partner would be....um, esfp i think, but the thought of esfp just totally TURNS ME OFF, no offense esfps.....my hair sylist is one and i love her, but not to be in a relationship with. just don't get that. friendship, yeah. but i KNOW i like NT men. or even ST men.

so, i find mbti better for relationship matching.

It's because you don't accurately type people. You can't assume they're the MBTI type. They are two different theories.

Socionics is atleast e-lemons times more accurate in relations than MBTI.

 

[Biaxident]

I also wanted to use this opportunity to publicly screw MBTI. Screw you MBTI!

Pictures or it didn't happen. And watch out for the paper cuts.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

It's because you don't accurately type people. You can't assume they're the MBTI type. They are two different theories.

guess i'm missing something then. do you have a better link for socionics typing besides socionics.com and wiki?

and i do know i like nt men, so if it tells me on their little grid that i do best with esfp, how does that jive?

 

[527468]

Pictures or it didn't happen. And watch out for the paper cuts.

No, I'm just really flexible.

 

[527468]

guess i'm missing something then. do you have a better link for socionics typing besides socionics.com and wiki?

and i do know i like nt men, so if it tells me on their little grid that i do best with esfp, how does that jive?

Try reading all of wikisocion first. Then google socionics and descriminate between all those websites. I'm getting some books in a few days, so maybe I'll post some information to your questions when that happens.

 

[Poki]

That's an interesting observation. I was wondering how we use our dominant and auxiliary functions differently.

My ESTP brother is more about brute strength whereas I am the endurance athlete. He has little interest in the activities I do, and I have little interest in adopting his goals of gaining muscle mass and the type of strength he desires.

I wonder if the difference is this: ESTP uses sensing to affect his environment, whereas ISTP uses his sensing to interact with his environment. I guess the answer to that is obvious, as that's the definition of extroversion vs. introversion.

Example for me: When swimming I use my sensing to feel the drag of the water. It allows me to adjust my body position, if necessary, for more efficient movement through the water. When I was running barefoot yesterday, I found that I use my feet as immediate sensory feedback, to sense what was directly beneath me on the ground, feeling debris or changes in elevation, allowing me to adjust shock absorbance with my knees, adjust my cadence, or change direction if needed.

I see what your saying, I have an extremely good sense of balance. When wrestling in a pool I can go against 2 people and usually come out ahead. Size and strength dont matter. I know how to turn and twist and use leverage to my advantage to over come strength and size. I can run down a hill full of boulders with them moving as I step on them and not miss a beat.

When it comes to bodybuilding I go for functional strength, prefer dumbells because it takes more control. In martial arts I was not about hurting the other person, but about speed and control. I could go full speed and just tap the other person. My cousin is learning not to block because all the power is there at full speed.

 

[phoenity]

i would say Si is a creative approach to body movement. it seeks an experience through witch it can see through completely. it designs the happening. Se is comfortable with affecting and reacting (interacting), not assuming conscious control over an unconscious partner-element. the product (design) of this interaction is surprising to Se (but it may be able to predict it, from experience)

I assume this was a response to my post, but I was confused by it at first. Now I think I understand why you are discussing Si...because this is a thread about Socionics and that theory says I operate on Te-Si.

However, looking at how my ESTP brother and I operate, I don't think that Socionics is correct.

The way we think and sense is the same, only our goals are different in a small sense. In my observation of him, I know that Se is his main goal, it's his dominant function, and Ti supports it. Ti is my main goal, my dominant function, and I use Se to support it.

 

[Poki]

I have a preference over MBTI in functions, but thats because I have based my theory using MBTI as a jumping point.

The one thing I noticed is that my subconcious is alot like ENFP outside. When talking to my mom we are very similiar. If you break it down by groups we are just opposite. The thing is they can better control the dynamics where I better understand them after the fact. I am working on controlling the dynamics, but Im not anywhere as good as an ENFP. Take below and break it down into groups of 2 and notice that we are really opposite. Since one function does nothing, we must have atleast 2. I may be off, but who knows.

ISTP - Ti Se Ni Fe Te Si Ne Fi
ENFP - Ne Fi Te Si Ni Fe Ti Se

 

[nanook]

enfp+istp=duals in socionics

 

[Poki]

enfp+istp=duals in socionics

I have noticed that we tend to look like our J/P counterpart when we are in control or we are on our own. Ps are more decisive and Js are more open. This is the flaw in MBTI is that it is based on outward appearance which changes. Appearance even change based on who we are around. We tend to pick up weaknesses and strengths based on the dynamics of the situation. I think my cousin is ESFP and around her I tend to be more J.

 

[Lauren Ashley]

well, i think you are right about the physical characteristics, from what i've read and correlated with types i know. BUT. it is WAY off when it comes to its relationship methodology!! it says i (infj) and intj would make good 'business partners' but not an effective relationship.....however, i'm in a pretty-damn-fabulous 21 year relationship with an intj. also, it says my duality partner would be....um, esfp i think[..]

Agreed. The dual for INFj is actually ESTj. Which I don't understand. I've never had a great relationship with an ESTj. I can agree with the other quadra members (ENFp and ISTp) being good picks, but not ESTj.

 

[527468]

Agreed. The dual for INFj is actually ESTj. Which I don't understand. I've never had a great relationship with an ESTj. I can agree with the other quadra members (ENFp and ISTp) being good picks, but not ESTj.

My EII friend is married to an LSE and they admire each other frankly. Fi and Te seem to go hand-in-hand.

I could imagine how MBTI ESTJs actually type as socionics ESTps and that kind of relationship is a no-no (I don't see how I could handle an Fe girl). The J-P switch is pretty common among introverts like the INF as well. There's also the introvert-extrovert switch. For example one of my good friends typed as an INxP in MBTI, but he's actually an ENFp in socionics.

So if an INFJ/ESTJ relationship is a catastrophe from the beginning, good chance they aren't INFj/ESTj "duals".

 

[Lauren Ashley]

My EII friend is married to an LSE and they admire each other frankly. Fi and Te seem to go hand-in-hand.

I could imagine how MBTI ESTJs actually type as socionics ESTps and that kind of relationship is a no-no. It's pretty common among the INFs as well.

My comments were in reference to Socionics ESTjs.

There's also an introvert-extrovert switch. One of my good friends typed as an INxP in MBTI, but he's actually an ENFp in socionics

 

[527468]

My comments were in reference to Socionics ESTjs.

So you're an INFj and your relationships with ESTjs were very negative, or they just didn't work out?

Because none of my dual relationships have worked out. I can always see our resemblance, but I guess I don't try to make it work. I figure an SeFi would be responsible for initiation.

 

[simulatedworld]

Socionics IS amazing. And the physical descriptions aren't really guesses but fairly accurate (though not always) theories they've put together over many years.

I don't see any pattern of accuracy in them whatsoever. Are there any studies on this that you can point to?

 

[Lauren Ashley]

So you're an INFj and your relationships with ESTjs were very negative, or they just didn't work out?

Both.

 

[527468]

Well, goodness. Think about it: MBTI version of E/I has to do with how "talkative" and "energized by people" you are. That is off base with traditional extraversion.

 

[527468]

Both.

What have been your best relationships? Any really wonderful experiences come out of dating or anything of the like? Fi is difficult for dating. I know from experience because I've gone with an ESI before. There's just so much she needs to bring forth, and I think an extraverted, objective, straight-shooter version of me will do that for her. From there I can see confidence and order upon her Se and that will dominate and make justification for appropriate action.

 

[Poki]

What have been your best relationships? Any really wonderful experiences come out of dating or anything of the like? Fi is difficult for dating. I know from experience because I've gone with an ESI before. There's just so much she needs to bring forth, and I think an extraverted, objective, straight-shooter version of me will do that for her. From there I can see confidence and order upon her Se and that will dominate and make justification for appropriate action.

Not criticizing, but INTPs are not the best at analyzing based on functional or actually applying knowledge to the real world. Its good to know your weakness as well as strengths.

In regards to relationships in general its one big compromise. You cant just look at one aspect of it. Its all about dynamics. Sometimes taking care of one function will pull them out of it and push them into something else. You cant base anything off a static view. You have to figure out what the best compromise is.