ISTJ Conversation Manipulation?

Misty_Mountain_Rose · 09-09-2008, 02:36 PM

Do you, as an ISTJ, often work deliberately in a conversation to lead the other person down a particular road to get specific answers? Do you 'set people up' in conversations?

If yes, do you see it as merely a way to lower the other persons defenses so they reveal more than they intended before they are aware of it, or do you do it as a kind of game?

Spectre of the spam · 09-09-2008, 05:22 PM

Uh, not that i'm aware of for the most part. I can lead conversation down a tangent if i'm really part of the conversation though.

Recoleta · 09-09-2008, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose

Do you, as an ISTJ, often work deliberately in a conversation to lead the other person down a particular road to get specific answers? Do you 'set people up' in conversations?

If yes, do you see it as merely a way to lower the other persons defenses so they reveal more than they intended before they are aware of it, or do you do it as a kind of game?

Could I if I wanted to? I guess so. Do I? No.

Truthfully, I really have no idea what you're talking about. Whenever anyone has a conversation with someone aren't they always trying to elicit answers to certain questions simply by asking questions? Maybe they just ask questions because they are interested or want more information.

It seems to me like you're asking if we ask certain questions to get some sort of response or confession from another person -- kind of like questioning someone in court. Or like asking rhetorical questions.

Sure, I can lead someone in a conversation if I already know all the answers. I do this every day when I teach my Spanish class. However, do I do this in my regular life? No. How can I? I don't know what the other person is going to say. I can ask a question, but it's up to the other person to respond however they'd like.

dnivera · 09-10-2008, 03:18 AM

Nope. If I need to know something, I'll ask you. That includes personal questions.

Some people take offense at my asking straightforward questions about themselves, when I'm actually just curious and interested in learning more about the other person. (What do you do, what did you study, where do you live? etc...). If I get a feel that someone feels uncomfortable revealing a lot about themselves, I just don't go there and talk about something else. If I end up leading the conversation, it usually happens to be me asking straightforward questions like those. Then the other person might end up "revealing more than they intended." I guess it's my way of getting to know the other person, but very often the other person shuts up and doesn't want to participate. I'm very careful not to ask personal questions now that I'm older. Don't be offended, it's just my way of getting to know you.

ajblaise · 09-10-2008, 03:26 AM

I think TJ's try to want to come to conclusions and close doors more in conversation, I don't know about manipulation.

phoenix13 · 09-10-2008, 03:41 AM

Every time I express a firm opinion, my ISTJ buddy will bring up trivial "but what about" exceptions just to tick me off. Often it's "but nothing is 100%, blah blah, how can you be so sure, blah blah."

I'm an ENFP, do you honestly think I don't know that? I just tell her to shut it. That's conversational manipulation (and attempted emotional manipulation), and I ain't havin' it.

Seriously, though, that whole "let's argue the most absurd points possible just to see how angry the ENFP will get" shit is so insulting. I personally find it amoral (pissing someone off for your own amusement). My ISTJ has knocked that off after confrontation because she's awesome like that... but those who don't, or those who currently do... cut that shit out.

EDIT: Sorry for getting vaguely off topic.

phoenix13 · 09-10-2008, 03:51 AM

btw, I've had someone who I'm pretty sure was an ISTJ walk me through a series of questions with the purpose of leading me to his pre-ordained answer. That's totally legitimate. He's basically walking me through his own reasoning and making me feel like I did it myself. I guess that could be seen as condescending, but I don't think that's the intent. OK, I think I'll stop here.

InaF3157 · 09-10-2008, 10:05 AM

It was funny watching an ENFP with an ISTJ trying to talk some sense into her. Basically, the ENFP had a habit of confusing her feelings with facts, so she would often talk out of her ass. The ISTJ would ask her questions obviously to have her think it through, and the the ENFP would gradually build to a blow up.
Good times

Misty_Mountain_Rose · 09-10-2008, 04:33 PM

I wonder if its just the INTJ impression at being asked such direct questions that lead to the whole 'how did they extract this from me... it must be deliberate' kind of thinking.

My ISTJ friends can pull things out of me that I never intended to reveal with very pointed and seemingly progressive questioning that gets past the normal defenses... maybe because its in such a logical and direct manner? Maybe it just appeals to my penchant for logic and when they approach it in such an analytical manner my responses are almost automatic, without the feeling that some types seem to be looking for.

Its unnerving and piques my interest at how they do it. A kind of curiosity and mild distrust... but then they start questioning again and I start answering without a thought.

Lithium · 09-10-2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misty_Mountain_Rose

Do you, as an ISTJ, often work deliberately in a conversation to lead the other person down a particular road to get specific answers? Do you 'set people up' in conversations?

If yes, do you see it as merely a way to lower the other persons defenses so they reveal more than they intended before they are aware of it, or do you do it as a kind of game?

I know an ISTJ who has done this and he wouldn't admit that he does. The reason being in my opinion is to validate his own view so he uses this method that is motivated by his need to prove himself.

I know an INTJ who has admitted to me that he does it.

09-09-2008, 02:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
Misty_Mountain_Rose Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Type: INTJ Posts: 842	ISTJ Conversation Manipulation? Do you, as an ISTJ, often work deliberately in a conversation to lead the other person down a particular road to get specific answers? Do you 'set people up' in conversations? If yes, do you see it as merely a way to lower the other persons defenses so they reveal more than they intended before they are aware of it, or do you do it as a kind of game?

09-10-2008, 03:18 AM	#4 (permalink)
dnivera Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Type: ISTJ Location: New York Posts: 152	Nope. If I need to know something, I'll ask you. That includes personal questions. Some people take offense at my asking straightforward questions about themselves, when I'm actually just curious and interested in learning more about the other person. (What do you do, what did you study, where do you live? etc...). If I get a feel that someone feels uncomfortable revealing a lot about themselves, I just don't go there and talk about something else. If I end up leading the conversation, it usually happens to be me asking straightforward questions like those. Then the other person might end up "revealing more than they intended." I guess it's my way of getting to know the other person, but very often the other person shuts up and doesn't want to participate. I'm very careful not to ask personal questions now that I'm older. Don't be offended, it's just my way of getting to know you. __________________ Introverted (I) 60% Extroverted (E) 40% Sensing (S) 56.25% Intuitive (N) 43.75% Thinking (T) 61.29% Feeling (F) 38.71% Judging (J) 71.88% Perceiving (P) 28.13% How to experience different function-attitudes.

09-10-2008, 10:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
InaF3157 got blue? Join Date: Jun 2008 Type: INTp Location: rugged terrain. Posts: 2,362	It was funny watching an ENFP with an ISTJ trying to talk some sense into her. Basically, the ENFP had a habit of confusing her feelings with facts, so she would often talk out of her ass. The ISTJ would ask her questions obviously to have her think it through, and the the ENFP would gradually build to a blow up. Good times __________________ Sex is the new Haagen-Dazs. Do you disapprove? ~ Pulp, from INTPc _____________ Big Five: RCOEI; primary Inquisitive; R(60%)C(54%)O(52%)E(68%)I(76%)

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09-09-2008, 05:22 PM	#2 (permalink)
Spectre of the spam Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Type: ISTJ Posts: 61	Uh, not that i'm aware of for the most part. I can lead conversation down a tangent if i'm really part of the conversation though.

09-10-2008, 03:26 AM	#5 (permalink)
ajblaise Stealing your stem cells Join Date: Aug 2008 Type: INTP Location: New York Posts: 4,360	I think TJ's try to want to come to conclusions and close doors more in conversation, I don't know about manipulation.

09-10-2008, 03:41 AM	#6 (permalink)
phoenix13 Accepted! Join Date: Apr 2008 Type: ENFP Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 1,019	Every time I express a firm opinion, my ISTJ buddy will bring up trivial "but what about" exceptions just to tick me off. Often it's "but nothing is 100%, blah blah, how can you be so sure, blah blah." I'm an ENFP, do you honestly think I don't know that? I just tell her to shut it. That's conversational manipulation (and attempted emotional manipulation), and I ain't havin' it. Seriously, though, that whole "let's argue the most absurd points possible just to see how angry the ENFP will get" shit is so insulting. I personally find it amoral (pissing someone off for your own amusement). My ISTJ has knocked that off after confrontation because she's awesome like that... but those who don't, or those who currently do... cut that shit out. EDIT: Sorry for getting vaguely off topic.

09-10-2008, 03:51 AM	#7 (permalink)
phoenix13 Accepted! Join Date: Apr 2008 Type: ENFP Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 1,019	btw, I've had someone who I'm pretty sure was an ISTJ walk me through a series of questions with the purpose of leading me to his pre-ordained answer. That's totally legitimate. He's basically walking me through his own reasoning and making me feel like I did it myself. I guess that could be seen as condescending, but I don't think that's the intent. OK, I think I'll stop here.

09-10-2008, 04:33 PM	#9 (permalink)
Misty_Mountain_Rose Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Type: INTJ Posts: 842	I wonder if its just the INTJ impression at being asked such direct questions that lead to the whole 'how did they extract this from me... it must be deliberate' kind of thinking. My ISTJ friends can pull things out of me that I never intended to reveal with very pointed and seemingly progressive questioning that gets past the normal defenses... maybe because its in such a logical and direct manner? Maybe it just appeals to my penchant for logic and when they approach it in such an analytical manner my responses are almost automatic, without the feeling that some types seem to be looking for. Its unnerving and piques my interest at how they do it. A kind of curiosity and mild distrust... but then they start questioning again and I start answering without a thought.