Liberal SJs

[FDG]

To be honest social conservativism is something I have never been able to understand fully. It's like trying to stop a flood by bare hands. You may disagree that your home must be destroyed by the flood, you may not like it, but that's what is going to happen regardless of your opinion. It's more efficient to let go, and hope you will remain alive somehow, rather than drown.

[entropie]

Nice analogy !

[Jeffster]

Originally Posted by entropie

Nice analogy !

Okay, what does it mean, then?

[frenchkiss]

Originally Posted by Jeffster

Okay, what does it mean, then?

I think the flood is progress and the house is the old/traditional way.

FDG correct me if I'm wrong.

[pure_mercury]

Originally Posted by frenchkiss

Yes, this is very true for me. I am a liberal, and in my case it's because my family depended a lot on government progams when I was growing up because my parents had low-paying jobs. So I tend to have a knee-jerk reaction toward any kind of conservatism in that specific area.

I can get really stupidly reactive about it: "Take away food stamps and poor children will STARVE!!"

I'm able to stay calm unless something specific triggers me and I just lose all rationality.

And being a "rebel without a cause" just seems like self-indulgence to me.

Children will not starve if you take away food stamps. Especially if you make it easier for adults to get low-paying-but-steady work.

[frenchkiss]

Originally Posted by pure_mercury

Children will not starve if you take away food stamps. Especially if you make it easier for adults to get low-paying-but-steady work.

What do you mean by low-paying-but-steady work? A single parent with two kids who has a steady job making the minimum wage simply isn't going to get by without help. I think that the haves and have-nots are a fundamental part of a capitalist system and so, morally, a safety net is needed.

I just like the idea of having the funds there for those kids just in case. Going back to what I was saying in my previous thread, though, my opinion on this matter is founded on the sense of helplessness I felt as a kid growing up, so it comes from a completely emotional place, not a rational one. It's a totally fear-based thing, so I don't really see it changing no matter how many facts are thrown at me. I'm very resistant to changing it.

I'm just being honest, sorry!

I do appreciate how you presented it in terms of "the kids won't starve" instead of saying "who cares if they starve?" It's the people who see things from that sort of social darwinist perspective that I have a very difficult time dealing with.

[pure_mercury]

Originally Posted by frenchkiss

What do you mean by low-paying-but-steady work? A single parent with two kids who has a steady job making the minimum wage simply isn't going to get by without help. I think that the haves and have-nots are a fundamental part of a capitalist system and so, morally, a safety net is needed.

I just like the idea of having the funds there for those kids just in case. Going back to what I was saying in my previous thread, though, my opinion on this matter is founded on the sense of helplessness I felt as a kid growing up, so it comes from a completely emotional place, not a rational one. It's a totally fear-based thing, so I don't really see it changing no matter how many facts are thrown at me. I'm very resistant to changing it.

I'm just being honest, sorry!

I do appreciate how you presented it in terms of "the kids won't starve" instead of saying "who cares if they starve?" It's the people who see things from that sort of social darwinist perspective that I have a very difficult time dealing with.

At least you're honest. I'm a libertarian, so I actually don't even believe in a minimum wage, but we can argue about that in a political thread later. Besides, no one I have ever met has ever said, "Who cares if they starve?" I've seen that as a libertarian stereotype, but it's never, ever been the case. The people I've met with the most blase attitude toward the poor have actually been Democrats and the politically indifferent.

[frenchkiss]

Originally Posted by pure_mercury

Besides, no one I have ever met has ever said, "Who cares if they starve?" I've seen that as a libertarian stereotype, but it's never, ever been the case.

I must just spend too much time around people who like to push my buttons!

[booyalab]

Originally Posted by frenchkiss

I think the flood is progress and the house is the old/traditional way.

FDG correct me if I'm wrong.

The problem with that is the assumption that everything that isn't traditional is progress. I can't think of anything more foolhardy.

[frenchkiss]

Originally Posted by booyalab

The problem with that is the assumption that everything that isn't traditional is progress. I can't think of anything more foolhardy.

I agree.