What do you think of ESTJs? - Page 4

Santtu · 10-18-2007, 10:33 PM

The ESTJ that I know best is a respectable person, a good example, and he well combines the needs of people and his organization. So I like him. I'd praise him more, but I'm going to sleep right now..

Lookin4theBestNU · 10-19-2007, 09:21 PM

I've known a couple ESTJs really well and met many others. They are good as long as they have zero authority over me. My mother and I for example get along much better now. My rule bending and primary focus both has always been a source of friction to the ones I've known. Two EJs can get along together very well if they have the same ideas...if not the sparks will fly. They say NFs are not competitive but that's not always true. I love to give ESTJs a run for their money so to speak in organizing and being successful. I like it best when they have gotten comfortable in their jobs and used to being number one. ESTJs can intimidate me though as I haven't met a single one who could deal with anger well. I've seen a couple of ESTJ explosions which were not pretty. ISTJs and I get along exceptionally well, throw in the E and it's a different story. I guess my opinion on the type in general is rather neutral. I'm guessing at the very least it is mutually indifferent or negative from their pov.

arcticangel02 · 10-20-2007, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lookin4theBestNU

ESTJs can intimidate me though as I haven't met a single one who could deal with anger well. I've seen a couple of ESTJ explosions which were not pretty.

Actually, yeah, I've noticed that too. Normally amicable and friendly, but when they get angry they go boom! ^^ Like when my dad is frustrated, the whole house knows, because he'll shout something (usually at himself) then go off and vent in private. I think he's learned that he works through his frustration best when he's alone, and we've learned to avoid him when he's annoyed. But it doesn't usually last long until he can deal with us civilly again(whether or not he's still simmering is hard to tell).

GirlAmerica · 10-20-2007, 03:04 PM

There is a duality in the ESTJ I am soon to be free of. (divorce)

There is part of him that is the most amazing father and husband. He pitches in on housework, is always working on a project improving our home, teaching the kids really awesome things (football, baseball, riding their bikes etc). He is funny and a lot of fun in so many ways I cant imagine a better partner in life. He works hard, and will work as much over time (law enforcement) as they will give him/allow.

On the other hand....

He is only motivated if things are going good for him. If they arent he is a wreck, falling apart emotionally and physically. He will let his health go, he will be very negative.
He is a habitual cheater, though until this was discovered life was fairly good as he was able to balance the duality and I never knew a thing was happening....except for his seeming moody.
When this was discovered he became enraged and explosive with his temper as I was making provisions for him to moveout....after a couple of years of his working on the issue and failing miserably I found myself DONE with the situation.

Somehow, he can very easily sweep aside the past and wants to start over again and again........

Something I cannot do, as life to me is based on an entwined landscape. Not individual pieces as he perceives.

My grandpa was an ESTJ also.....he also seemed to do very similar things in his marriage. My grandmother was an ISFJ however, and it seems the period of time it occured in their lives and her being somewhat submissive lead it to occur continually over their marriage until they were older.

Vicki · 10-21-2007, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zergling

My dad seems to fit ESTJ well. We get along o.k.

In general, though, the bad sides of an ESTJ tend to be more immediately obvious with direct effects on people than for most other types. The stereotypical bad side of an ESTJ is bossy, over involved in other people's business, hard to get rid of, hard to convince, and a general pain in the ass to people near them. Compare to a stereotypical bad ENTP, who might be annoyingly talky but can be avoided more easily, or a stereotypical bad INxP, who will procrastinate and not finish stuff, but won't be injecting themselves into other people's business, and are easier to keep away.

same here, my dad is an ESTJ.
when he's in a good mood I respect his opinions.

Blackwater · 10-21-2007, 02:02 PM

In my experience, ESTJs are actually somewhat comical.

I always compare them unfavorably to ENTJs: The local administrator versus the global administrator. Because I'm N-dominant and P, all else equal, I find it comical how ESTJs will look at a given problem within a very constricted frame of mind and then make up their minds based on various shorthand considerations. I wish they'd take a broader view of a given situation before acting. And its even worse with ESFJs.

arcticangel02 · 10-21-2007, 03:52 PM

Another thing that just came to mind - the ESTJ I know has a fantastic memory for little bits of useless trivia. He remembers the casts of obscure TV shows from 20 years ago, the name of bands that had one hit and one hit only, and probably the album that hit was on, to boot. Given, his knowledge of more recent bands/shows is less complete, but just about anything that isn't entirely obscure from 10 or 20 years ago, he knows. It never fails to astonish me.

wildcat · 10-21-2007, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by athenian200

My impression is that they're highly efficient and thorough people, who work very hard towards things, and can be a bit controlling, tending to micro-manage. I've never met one, though.

Mariankatu 1 Helsinki.

hotmale · 10-21-2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackwater

In my experience, ESTJs are actually somewhat comical.

I always compare them unfavorably to ENTJs: The local administrator versus the global administrator. Because I'm N-dominant and P, all else equal, I find it comical how ESTJs will look at a given problem within a very constricted frame of mind and then make up their minds based on various shorthand considerations. I wish they'd take a broader view of a given situation before acting. And its even worse with ESFJs.

I have a friend who would never trust an ESFJ to make any decisions except maybe what to have for lunch at meetings.

kristin · 10-21-2007, 11:47 PM

I've known at least three ESTJs well in my life - one of them is my father. Here's the common thread that I see between them:

ESTJs that I have known seem to size up a person instantly to decide whether the person is a friend or foe. If they deem that person a friend, they are intensely loyal to them and defensive of anything someone else would say against them. If they deem that person to be a foe, I hope that person gets a three second headstart to the door!

They make excellent leaders, seem to be extremely competent and driven, and are typically very good in business. They have this sort of charm that I've never seen any other personality type exude so much.

They also lack patience, are very stubborn and not easily swayed, and if you start an argument with one (which I have), their anger can be astounding. It's really explosive and seems to come out of nowhere.

I highly value their rational thinking. And I love the fact that they say what they mean and don't mince words. You always know exactly where you stand.

When making decisions, they are very quick to decide, and it's extremely difficult to get them to re-analyze a decision. Being an INTJ myself, it frustrates me that they don't always analyze all of the possibilities before making a decision. For example, if I were going to purchase a computer, my tendency would be to do a lot of research, compare models and prices, and then come to a final, educated decision. My father is so driven to decide quickly that he might think of buying a computer at 9:00 AM one day and by 10:00 AM he's in the local computer store asking someone (that he has deemed competent) what the best model is. Out the door he goes at 10:30, computer in hand. Maybe the difference is that they are so trusting of people they have decided they like. I don't trust anyone to make my decisions for me - I might take into account their advice but ultimately I make the decision myself.

10-19-2007, 09:21 PM	#32 (permalink)
Lookin4theBestNU Tell me about it! Join Date: Apr 2007 Type: ENFj Posts: 742	I've known a couple ESTJs really well and met many others. They are good as long as they have zero authority over me. My mother and I for example get along much better now. My rule bending and primary focus both has always been a source of friction to the ones I've known. Two EJs can get along together very well if they have the same ideas...if not the sparks will fly. They say NFs are not competitive but that's not always true. I love to give ESTJs a run for their money so to speak in organizing and being successful. I like it best when they have gotten comfortable in their jobs and used to being number one. ESTJs can intimidate me though as I haven't met a single one who could deal with anger well. I've seen a couple of ESTJ explosions which were not pretty. ISTJs and I get along exceptionally well, throw in the E and it's a different story. I guess my opinion on the type in general is rather neutral. I'm guessing at the very least it is mutually indifferent or negative from their pov. __________________ Lyrics I'm loving: Saliva:Lackluster Is it something in your head, is there pleasure in your pain, is it words that you didn't say. Or is it something inside me. I wish that we'd never gone this far. And I wish I could take it away and celebrate how wrong you are. And no one can make me feel like you. And no one can thrill me like you do. I can feel your legs wrapped around me. I can feel your eyes fixed upon me. I can feel the heat from your body.

10-20-2007, 03:04 PM	#34 (permalink)
GirlAmerica Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Type: intj Posts: 247	There is a duality in the ESTJ I am soon to be free of. (divorce) There is part of him that is the most amazing father and husband. He pitches in on housework, is always working on a project improving our home, teaching the kids really awesome things (football, baseball, riding their bikes etc). He is funny and a lot of fun in so many ways I cant imagine a better partner in life. He works hard, and will work as much over time (law enforcement) as they will give him/allow. On the other hand.... He is only motivated if things are going good for him. If they arent he is a wreck, falling apart emotionally and physically. He will let his health go, he will be very negative. He is a habitual cheater, though until this was discovered life was fairly good as he was able to balance the duality and I never knew a thing was happening....except for his seeming moody. When this was discovered he became enraged and explosive with his temper as I was making provisions for him to moveout....after a couple of years of his working on the issue and failing miserably I found myself DONE with the situation. Somehow, he can very easily sweep aside the past and wants to start over again and again........ Something I cannot do, as life to me is based on an entwined landscape. Not individual pieces as he perceives. My grandpa was an ESTJ also.....he also seemed to do very similar things in his marriage. My grandmother was an ISFJ however, and it seems the period of time it occured in their lives and her being somewhat submissive lead it to occur continually over their marriage until they were older. __________________ I am the mess you choose The closet you cannot close The devil in you I suppose Cause the wounds never heal

10-21-2007, 02:02 PM	#36 (permalink)
Blackwater Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Type: ENTP Location: Europa Posts: 254	In my experience, ESTJs are actually somewhat comical. I always compare them unfavorably to ENTJs: The local administrator versus the global administrator. Because I'm N-dominant and P, all else equal, I find it comical how ESTJs will look at a given problem within a very constricted frame of mind and then make up their minds based on various shorthand considerations. I wish they'd take a broader view of a given situation before acting. And its even worse with ESFJs. __________________ www.postmodernmind.com

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10-18-2007, 10:33 PM	#31 (permalink)
Santtu Survey Monkey Join Date: Sep 2007 Type: enTj Posts: 1,542	The ESTJ that I know best is a respectable person, a good example, and he well combines the needs of people and his organization. So I like him. I'd praise him more, but I'm going to sleep right now..

10-21-2007, 03:52 PM	#37 (permalink)
arcticangel02 To the top of the world Join Date: Oct 2007 Type: eNFP Location: IA Posts: 922	Another thing that just came to mind - the ESTJ I know has a fantastic memory for little bits of useless trivia. He remembers the casts of obscure TV shows from 20 years ago, the name of bands that had one hit and one hit only, and probably the album that hit was on, to boot. Given, his knowledge of more recent bands/shows is less complete, but just about anything that isn't entirely obscure from 10 or 20 years ago, he knows. It never fails to astonish me.

10-21-2007, 11:47 PM	#40 (permalink)
kristin Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Type: INTJ Posts: 11	I've known at least three ESTJs well in my life - one of them is my father. Here's the common thread that I see between them: ESTJs that I have known seem to size up a person instantly to decide whether the person is a friend or foe. If they deem that person a friend, they are intensely loyal to them and defensive of anything someone else would say against them. If they deem that person to be a foe, I hope that person gets a three second headstart to the door! They make excellent leaders, seem to be extremely competent and driven, and are typically very good in business. They have this sort of charm that I've never seen any other personality type exude so much. They also lack patience, are very stubborn and not easily swayed, and if you start an argument with one (which I have), their anger can be astounding. It's really explosive and seems to come out of nowhere. I highly value their rational thinking. And I love the fact that they say what they mean and don't mince words. You always know exactly where you stand. When making decisions, they are very quick to decide, and it's extremely difficult to get them to re-analyze a decision. Being an INTJ myself, it frustrates me that they don't always analyze all of the possibilities before making a decision. For example, if I were going to purchase a computer, my tendency would be to do a lot of research, compare models and prices, and then come to a final, educated decision. My father is so driven to decide quickly that he might think of buying a computer at 9:00 AM one day and by 10:00 AM he's in the local computer store asking someone (that he has deemed competent) what the best model is. Out the door he goes at 10:30, computer in hand. Maybe the difference is that they are so trusting of people they have decided they like. I don't trust anyone to make my decisions for me - I might take into account their advice but ultimately I make the decision myself.