What do you think of ESTJs?

[Silently Honest]

I've starting to believe that ESTJs are inredeemable and ignorant, with visionless agendas of what they believe is stability, a stability that can only be achieved through emulating what there fathers before them have done, but in doing so they close themselves off to so much... They see nothing wrong with this, but here's the shitty part, They expect every one else to live by there rigid idea of "How things are," because what's right for them is obviously right for every one else.

I don't know if that's right or not, but that's how I see them, and if it's right or not, I don't wish to go through life with such a negative view of a type of person.

My mom is ESTJ, and physically I could never ask for a better one. I've never gone a night hungry, and have always had a place to sleep. She takes care of all of the things I would never have the patience to do. She is however and I say this with all the respect in the world to my mother, emotionally retarded, I've never once felt close to her, as if there is a wall made of bullet proof glass seperating us. We can see each other, but we will never touch.

God I hate life right now.

An aside: Meatbot your avatar is gross.

[elfinchilde]

Originally Posted by Baltar

baltar's superb rant

Everything he said. I don't like judging people, i don't like NOT giving second chances, but if there's one type i have a visceral hatred that transcends reason for, it'd have to be the ESTJ.

Put into the equation the following: manipulative, plotting, divisive, scheming--and obvious, yet oblivious to how obvious they are.

Also some of the most lazy workers i've known, though their "philosophies" which they'd preach at you, will seem as though they're open-minded, value inputs, are tolerant, and are hard workers. Hypocrites all the way. My ex-boss talked about how hard he worked, and could practically lynch me for coming to work late, nevermind the fact that he goes to work LATER than i do, and *disappears* frequently for heaven-knows-what meetings--strategically placed in the mornings and late afternoons, so he's usually out of office by like 3 pm--AND has a tendency to "need to go to the bank to redraw my fixed deposits" at strategic times when stock markets are crashing. (everyone who invests will know that fixed deposits, upon maturation, do not require a rushed redrawal. the bossie was playing the markets and likely got a margin call those times. it's too strategic to be otherwise)

what i hate most is how they divide the team up by playing one member against another. whilst overtly talking about how they "value each team member."

yet they're micro-managers who'd breathe down your neck for one hair out of place from *their* plan.

so much for the ESTJ being the INTP's best match. bwah.

[Provoker]

Originally Posted by hotmale

Toonia, maybe you should be more specific. Were these ESTJs in positions of authority over you? You say they were competitive, did they attempt to upstage or demean your achievements? Did they apply a superficial criteria in an attempt to make you feel less worthy? Gotta be more specific, girl.

This very post is an example of what annoys me about ESTJs. Their lack of ability to think in abstract terms. They need concrete specific details to extract meaning. By doing this the ESTJ view is extremely limited: They see everything through a window rather than dome. Time and time again NTs will try to show why (in many cases) it is more advantageous to see things from a higher level of abstraction. Yet all to often the ESTJ proves incapable of doing so. Let us draw on a methaphor to further illustrate my point. If a painter wants to paint a large landscape are they going to position themselves at ground level? Not if there is a mountain available which they could climb to get a majestic view of the whole picture. The ESTJ doesn't speak big picture. That's what I think of ESTJs.

[Sarcasticus]

Originally Posted by Provoker

This very post is an example of what annoys me about ESTJs. Their lack of ability to think in abstract terms. They need concrete specific details to extract meaning. By doing this the ESTJ view is extremely limited: They see everything through a window rather than dome. Time and time again NTs will try to show why (in many cases) it is more advantageous to see things from a higher level of abstraction. Yet all to often the ESTJ proves incapable of doing so. Let us draw on a methaphor to further illustrate my point. If a painter wants to paint a large landscape are they going to position themselves at ground level? Not if there is a mountain available which they could climb to get a majestic view of the whole picture. The ESTJ doesn't speak big picture. That's what I think of ESTJs.

You just perfectly described an employee of mine. The amount of point A to point B to point C I have to do when communicating a task to this person is mind-numbing.

[MacGuffin]

Originally Posted by elfinchilde

so much for the ESTJ being the INTP's best match. bwah.

Yeah, I've always thought that to be insanely wrong.

[booyalab]

I don't like their presumptiveness. I'm really okay with anyone who doesn't start shit with me, and pretty much every ESTJ female I've known is extremely talented at starting shit. They soon regret it though.

ESTJ guys I don't have as much of a problem with because they're not as prone to squabbling in my experience.

[arcticangel02]

Hah, so my first posts here were a leetle enthusiastic.

Originally Posted by Silently Honest

I've starting to believe that ESTJs are inredeemable and ignorant, with visionless agendas of what they believe is stability, a stability that can only be achieved through emulating what there fathers before them have done, but in doing so they close themselves off to so much... They see nothing wrong with this, but here's the shitty part, They expect every one else to live by there rigid idea of "How things are," because what's right for them is obviously right for every one else.

I have noticed this. Western countries do tend to have an ESTJ culture, and so ESTJs have fitted in perfectly most of their lives, and as such don't realise that not everyone fits in as easily as they do. For them, the way they do things is clearly the best way for everyone, because it's always worked for them.

For example, if you have a way of doing something - say tying your shoes. You learned the standard way, and it works every time. But someone else is there, trying to tie their shoes in a strange, roundabout sort of way that doesn't really have any sense to it. You might try to suggest your way of tying your shoes, but they shrug you off and say "Nah, I can't do it like that." Which clearly doesn't make any sense - anyone can tie their shoes the regular way, can't they?

That's sort of how the ESTJs see the world - from their perspective, their way is the best way, because anything else is just making life difficult for yourself. If you're not doing things this way, you must be 'stupid', because it's so easy to figure out.

And they're not usually hypocrites - they work hard, they're loyal, they're outgoing and sensible and logical. But then they turn around and expect the same things from everyone else, whether the others are capable of that or not. For the ESTJ, it is not a matter of capabilites/strengths and weaknesses, it's all about willpower. All you have to do is have the strength of will, and it will happen.

Thus, they have little sympathy for people who are drug addicts, for example, or who break the law. "Criminals can't be very bright", says the ESTJ, "Drug addicts are just lazy." For them it's a simple case of laws being the obvious thing that a normal, intelligent person will follow, and anyone who is dependant on a drug simply needs to stop taking them. That much is obvious, and anyone not understanding that can only be deficient in intelligence - what other explanation can there be?


Just a few observations of my own.

[FineLine]

I like most of the ones I've known, both male and female. They're brash, energetic, opinionated go-getters, and they have a funny, rude sense of humor. They're refreshing on a short-term basis--entertaining company; and they're good friends on a long-term basis--you know where you stand with them.

[spartan26]

I do not know how some people go through life convinced nothing is ever their own fault. Worse than alcoholics in full denial. Few things get me as upset as someone blaming his or her own shortsightedness on someone else completely unrelated to the issue.

I'm not a fan of snap assessments made completely devoid of logic. I'm not a fan of people who project their feelings on me (or others). I'm not a fan rude, unapologetic behavior. Yes, these are actions that can and are taken by everybody. It has been my experience that ESTJ's commit far more of these acts in greater frequency than any other type I've had a conclusion formed without cognitive application in my mind.

[entropie]

I do not know how some people go through life convinced nothing is ever their own fault. Worse than alcoholics in full denial.

Most of the time it is ignorance and that shalt be ignored. But sometimes it is depression and that can must should be recognized, sometimes... when it is urgent xD