Okay, so I can sort of agree with you guys about the prank as well. I wouldn't like it, either. But I didn't do it where several people would witness it. He has his own office, so I just intended for him to hear it, try to figure it out, and see what transpired. It was more of a "I wonder if he'll be able to figure it out and how long it will take" type of thing. Turns out he's really private about his computer (his company-owned computer). When he asked my co-worker to give him a file, he simply copied it remotely to his desktop. My co-worker and I do that all the time to each other. "Hey, it should be on your desktop." "Thanks." Well, Doug comes in immediately and demands to know how he did it.
Regarding this, I agree with PeaceBaby.
No, someone doesn't have to report it. I hear people complain about Doug all the time, but I never report it. That would be tattling and trying to look good to the boss for something that doesn't pertain to me. Him doing a bad job doesn't affect my job. It doesn't cause me to have more or less work. It's completely irrelevant to my responsibilities. I do feel good when I hear people complain about others, though, because I look good in comparison without having to do anything.
This seems very cynical and self-involved to me. Him reporting everything, in comparison, is selfless and other-focused -- even if it is annoying to everyone else. He sees someone else having trouble, and he wants to help. Is wanting to help really so wrong? What makes you think that he's only doing it to look good for someone else?
Don't think I'm being too idealistic, because absolutely nothing you've said about this ESTJ has given me any cause to think that he's a suck-up or a fake. And if he's not a suck-up, then he's honestly trying to do the right thing. And frankly, I'd rather work in a place where everyone wants to help each other, than a place where everyone looks out for themselves and refuses to help the others out for fear of looking like they're "tattling".
I find it interesting that you're an ISFP and you think this way, because Te is all about seeing problems and wanting to step in and fix them. Maybe your Te just manifests itself differently.
I wanted to give a direct answer. I wanted to give the short answer. However, possible short answers could be "yes", "no", "for now", or "I think so".
If "yes", he would go and call them, find out it isn't fixed, and come back and get all mad because I lied to him.
If "no", he would get all mad because I'm lazy and haven't done it yet. Then tell me to call them right now while he stands there.
If "for now", he would get frustrated because I'm giving him a vague answer that doesn't really answer his question and he'd argue with me about what "for now" means.
If "I think so", he'd get all mad because I left them without knowing if it was fixed or not, and that's lazy and irresponsible.
I think almost all of this is due to trust issues.
And that will probably be resolved with time.
I always feel negative about myself after he does that because I wish I could just be strong and assertive and stand my ground and not let him push me around and treat me that way and I hate how I can't. I honestly feel he creates a hostile working environment for me. And then I start intentionally giving him vague answers because it's none of his business and I start saying things just to piss him off and make him go away and he tells me that I have the worst attitude he's ever seen and it's going to get me in trouble one of these days.
Firstly, if you give intentionally vague answers just to piss him off, that's just going to make him trust you even less, which will make him even more annoying to you and will therefore be counterproductive. And if that is what you do, then he's justified in telling you that you have a bad attitude.
Secondly, it's important to remember that he isn't bullying you, and he isn't "pushing you around". That would imply bad intentions, and his intentions are pure. Where he's coming from is: "I have a co-worker who obviously doesn't like me, and who has played dirty, mean and scary pranks on me, and who talks badly about me behind my back. I hate that this is our work dynamic, but I still want things to get done correctly, so I might as well try to be as helpful as possible." The Te worldview, like I said before, is all about problem-solving. That's just how they operate. You will never meet an ESTJ who thinks the way you do about the workplace, i.e. that no one should get involved in anyone else's business unless they are explicitly told to do so in their job description.
Yes, he was under stress. He had his motorcycle being worked on yesterday and asked me to give him a ride to the mechanic so he could pick it up. I was almost certain he was going to say "I'll drive" even though it's the company car that I drive, and I was thinking and thinking of how I should respond. I knew that he'd say he didn't like how I drove, but what if I don't like how he drives? But he didn't, so I was relieved. On the way we talked and pretty much agreed on everything regarding hating drivers that don't use turn signals, hating how people tail-gate, etc. I then brought up the kiosk thing and started to say "sorry" about how that went down, and he stopped me and said not to worry about it, he was just under a lot of stress with one manager yelling on his right and another guy yelling on his left and blaming him for the computer not being up while he was talking to me on the phone.
Well there you go!
Looks like you've seen him in a good mood, then. Once you start earning his trust back, hopefully he'll be like that with you more often. That's how ESTJs are supposed to act.
Also, oddly enough, he does get defensive when I ask him if he got something done. He says he'll get to it when he gets to it, but he has a lot of other things to do first. It seems like he doesn't like me checking up on him because I'm less responsible and half his age and he always gets things done and I'm insulting him by even questioning that he'll get it done. He is always in "proving himself" mode. I think he's worried about his job because he almost got let go in our last layoff. He's always trying to show how useful he is. My co-worker, Terry, says he's like Thomas the Train, always trying to be a useful engine. He often complains that I just sit there all day doing nothing while he busts his butt.
I think you've been projecting a little. Although some of it may be because he's worried about his job, most of it is just that ESTJs hate being humbled by people who they consider to be less talented or less capable than them. Obviously, in his case, age is another factor, though that isn't the case for all ESTJs. Also, that comment about you being less responsible is proof of what I was saying earlier, i.e. that he doesn't trust you to get things done.
I guess knowing that it's just how he operates and he isn't out to make my life miserable helps.
Exactly. Your co-worker Terry has it right -- the ESTJ is just trying to help, and helping often means getting involved, and checking up on people to see how they're doing.
A lot of you ESTJ's say that you respect people who stand up for themselves and who are not doormats. When I stand up to the xxTJ's (Te, Fi) that I know IRL, one of two things seems to happen:
1. It turns into an argument/pissing match.
2. Sometimes I walk away feeling like I may have been "too" straightforward and triggered some Fi sadness.
If you're very blunt and even critical with someone (Te), what do you expect their response to be to you? It's logical that they would most likely "punch back", right? So, if you come at someone with cold, hard Te, how could that person ideally respond to you? If we cower and walk away, then we're a doormat. If we stand firm and "punch back", then we're argumentative. What's the happy medium?
We still want you to be argumentative.
Because we want everyone to be on the same page. If we convince you, that's great, and we'll agree, and if you convince us, we'll be extremely embarrassed and cranky for maybe ten minutes... but then all will be forgiven, and we'll agree.
Also, I shouldn't even be using the word "arguing"; you said it best when you called it "cold, hard Te". They're facts without emotion. Since you're INTP, you're in a position to reply perfectly, with accurate Ti. For example:
ESTJ: Well obviously this is the case because X=Y.
INTP: Actually, no. I read an article this morning that said that X=Z and Z=/=Y. Clear as day.
ESTJ: No way. Where did you read that?
INTP: ZXY Magazine.
ESTJ (sulking): ... Huh. Okay.
INTP: Seriously, I'll pull it up on my smartphone. Here it is.
ESTJ (pissed off): ... Sure enough. There it is. (sulks away)
(10 minutes later, separate conversation)
ESTJ: So I thought that X=Y before, but it turns out there was this article in ZXY magazine before that totally refuted that...
Other people: Hmm, interesting!
So, in other words... As embarrassing as it is for the ESTJ initially, they'd rather gain the right opinion, than beat you in an argument with the wrong opinion. We want people to stick up for their arguments because we want wrong opinions to be eliminated.
This makes sense, but I wonder if ESTJs may apply a bit of a double standard here? From the relatively small amount of observation I've done, it seems to me that some ESTJs find what I might (rather condescendingly) call "stupid humour" (sorry, but that's how I feel!!) funny...at least if they're making the joke and someone else is on the receiving end.
...
To me it's insecure behaviour in any case, regardless of type...when you expect others to find your pranks and silly jokes amusing, but get annoyed and defensive when the tables are turned. I certainly hate pranks as I find them embarrassing and a waste of time - I'd only be amused if it was very lightly done and very briefly done. Years ago friends of mine (a definite ESFJ and a probably ESTP) spent the WHOLE DAY winding up a mutual friend (probably ISFP) about how our flight for the holiday we were all going on had been cancelled...they thought it was hilarious, he was seriously unamused when he found out, especially as he'd been trying to figure out alternative travel arrangements...! I was pretty unamused too...
I agree with you about maturity. I was reading a really amazing
article about this particular theory of humor, called the Benign Violation theory, that really blows my mind because I can't think of an exception. The idea is: something is funny if something/one (anything/one!) is violated -- as long as you don't see it as harmful in any way. So, maturity would come in because immature people generally aren't as empathetic, so they wouldn't see that what they were doing wasn't "benign" and that it was actually hurtful.
Also, it's a double standard for a lot of people. Really, anyone who watches "America's Funniest Home Videos", or silly prank/crotch-kicking videos on YouTube. That video may be funny, but if YOU were the one being kicked in the balls, it wouldn't be funny at all.
In short: not type-related. But definitely hypocritical!
I'm sorry that I only reply to certain posts in this thread. Sometimes I don't know what to say.
EJCC is better at explaining herself than I am and I think she is more ESTJ than I am.
I dunno -- I've had a lot of practice. And I maintain that you're more ESTJ than you think.
We relate to most of each other's type-related cognitive processes, I think.
I have no idea whether the people you mentioned are ESTJs, but I know I wouldn't do either of those things, and that I wouldn't find them funny if I watched them. Kind of lame, actually.
Agreed.
I read those anecdotes and both could be called, as they say in the Old Country... "Kind Of A Dick Move".
When I read your post I thought back to when we
discussed humor on here last year. I think that I'm waaay more likely to make plays on words than anything.
Nice work!
Thanks for finding that. I had totally forgotten.
I'm not sure what you mean. I think I need context for this comment. 
That's so great. What a sweet guy.
