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Thread: Jesus

  1. #141

  2. #142
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Array Mole's Avatar
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    Patriarchy and the Father

    To live in a patriarchal society and worship the Father is a sign of cowardice.

    To live in a patriarchal society and worship the Father is a sign of moral cowadice.

    But look, patriarchy makes cowards of us all.

  3. #143
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Array Mole's Avatar
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    Thy Will

    Everybody and their dog criticises christianity, but no one criticises Jesus.

    I think this is because they are afraid to criticise Jesus.

    They are afraid to criticise Jesus because he has been idealised and has become our highest ideal, and how afraid we are to lose our highest ideal. For if we lost our highest ideal we would be rudderless, lost in a world without direction, and we prefer any direction to no direction.

    It's as though we prefer any parent to no parent, for children of abusive parents still love their parents, often fiercely, and the more abuse, the more they love them.

    Jesus, of course, had a parent who sacrificed him by tortoring him to death. Jesus pleaded with his father not to torture him to death by saying, "Father, let this cup pass from me", as he sweated blood in anticipation of his torture.

    But imagine if instead of, "Thy will be done", Jesus said, "I won't do your will. I won't let you torture me".

  4. #144
    Cracker with soul Array Jennifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Everybody and their dog criticises christianity, but no one criticises Jesus.

    I think this is because they are afraid to criticise Jesus.
    Well, it's rather like criticizing ghandi or mother teresa or john walsh.

    They are afraid to criticise Jesus because he has been idealised and has become our highest ideal, and how afraid we are to lose our highest ideal. For if we lost our highest ideal we would be rudderless, lost in a world without direction, and we prefer any direction to no direction.
    There is some truth to that, although I think people think more in terms of customs and concretes.

    It's as though we prefer any parent to no parent, for children of abusive parents still love their parents, often fiercely, and the more abuse, the more they love them.

    Jesus, of course, had a parent who sacrificed him by tortoring him to death. Jesus pleaded with his father not to torture him to death by saying, "Father, let this cup pass from me", as he sweated blood in anticipation of his torture.
    The whole story has been presented as Jesus choosing to sacrifice himself willingly, not as God subjecting him to torture against his will (ultimately). Just because people don't want to do something doesn't mean they cannot choose to do it willingly; no one wants to die, and especially, no one wants to suffer.

    But imagine if instead of, "Thy will be done", Jesus said, "I won't do your will. I won't let you torture me".
    I imagine God would have said, "Okay," and then been up the creek without a paddle.

    ... alternately, at that point Jesus would have been Satan, and the story would get really intriguing!
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  5. #145
    Browney Blue Array AffirmitiveAnxiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Everybody and their dog criticises christianity, but no one criticises Jesus.

    I think this is because they are afraid to criticise Jesus.

    They are afraid to criticise Jesus because he has been idealised and has become our highest ideal, and how afraid we are to lose our highest ideal. For if we lost our highest ideal we would be rudderless, lost in a world without direction, and we prefer any direction to no direction.

    It's as though we prefer any parent to no parent, for children of abusive parents still love their parents, often fiercely, and the more abuse, the more they love them.

    Jesus, of course, had a parent who sacrificed him by tortoring him to death. Jesus pleaded with his father not to torture him to death by saying, "Father, let this cup pass from me", as he sweated blood in anticipation of his torture.

    But imagine if instead of, "Thy will be done", Jesus said, "I won't do your will. I won't let you torture me".
    Are you joking? I criticise jesus all the time. He didn't wash, he never shaved and he spent all this time going around giving free help to those in need, but he didn't stick around to help set up systems that would help them in the long run......OHHH NO, it was all "Ill just heal those legs....ok cya".

    It's like people who buy a Big Issue that ONE TIME and then spend the rest of the time believing they made a difference. He never had a bigger image of the future and everything he did was just a bunch of incidental 'feel good' charity one offs. They were still nice acts maybe, but he never set up or helped the people set themselves up with something lasting for the future.

    Like throwing money at a problem, it never really solves anything, what is required is hard work and the ability to see what needs to be done that will last and benefit not just those right now, but those in the future.
    "But solemnity? It serves pomposity and the self important know, at some level of their consciousness, that their egotism is going to be punctured by humour; that's why they see it as a threat. And so dishonestly, pretend that their deficiency makes their views MORE substantial, when it only makes them...feel bigger."

    - John Cleese

  6. #146
    Cracker with soul Array Jennifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Are you joking? I criticise jesus all the time. He didn't wash, he never shaved and he spent all this time going around giving free help to those in need, but he didn't stick around to help set up systems that would help them in the long run......OHHH NO, it was all "Ill just heal those legs....ok cya".

    It's like people who buy a Big Issue that ONE TIME and then spend the rest of the time believing they made a difference. He never had a bigger image of the future and everything he did was just a bunch of incidental 'feel good' charity one offs. They were still nice acts maybe, but he never set up or helped the people set themselves up with something lasting for the future.

    Like throwing money at a problem, it never really solves anything, what is required is hard work and the ability to see what needs to be done that will last and benefit not just those right now, but those in the future.
    Lol.

    Like he could have said to the guy who been blind from birth, "I could heal your eyes but it won't stop you from being a lazy SOB -- go out and get a job, you sluggard!"

    Instead he just called the foreign woman a dog and asked her why he should bother healing her child and then conceded after she expressed faith.

    Maybe he would have been more effective in changing society by setting up, "Jesus' Temp Service for Handicapped People."
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  7. #147
    Jeremy Jerms Array Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Are you joking? I criticise jesus all the time. He didn't wash, he never shaved and he spent all this time going around giving free help to those in need, but he didn't stick around to help set up systems that would help them in the long run......OHHH NO, it was all "Ill just heal those legs....ok cya".
    Jesus setting up socio-political systems in opposition to Roman rule. You're kidding, right? You realize that Jesus didn't have such concepts, correct?
    To Mal12345: "Of the 100,000 random people i see here on Zuckerberg's site [Facebook] you are in a top percentile. Independence of mind is important to me."

  8. #148
    Browney Blue Array AffirmitiveAnxiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Jesus setting up socio-political systems in opposition to Roman rule. You're kidding, right? You realize that Jesus didn't have such concepts, correct?
    This would have been an interesting discussion had I not been joking. Look before you leap...or at least ask before you throw yourself off.
    "But solemnity? It serves pomposity and the self important know, at some level of their consciousness, that their egotism is going to be punctured by humour; that's why they see it as a threat. And so dishonestly, pretend that their deficiency makes their views MORE substantial, when it only makes them...feel bigger."

    - John Cleese

  9. #149
    Cracker with soul Array Jennifer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal+ View Post
    Jesus setting up socio-political systems in opposition to Roman rule. You're kidding, right? You realize that Jesus didn't have such concepts, correct?
    Wasn't much of a god, then, was he? If the Romans could outthink him?







    Hey Capa. We're only stardust.

    Movie Reviews: What Jenny Saw

  10. #150
    Jeremy Jerms Array Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Wasn't much of a god, then, was he? If the Romans could outthink him?
    Nice save!
    To Mal12345: "Of the 100,000 random people i see here on Zuckerberg's site [Facebook] you are in a top percentile. Independence of mind is important to me."

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