Gay and transexuals

[great_bay]

Transsexuals claim to have a different brain want to get their sex change. Gay people have a brain similar to females yet they don't have the urge to get their sex change. Why is this?


Edit: Actually mods, don't delete this thread. I change my mind.

 

[kyuuei]

Well.. first, male and female brains are awfully similar to begin with despite attraction. (Let's not even delve into historically straight males in ancient times engaging in same sex relations, and that society sort of puts standards on how taboo homosexuality is or is not. Many children experiment with the same sex at young ages, but young boys tend to hide it because of the taboo it is seen as now.)

There have been some studies showing correlations between second and third sons and homosexuality via the mother's resistance to testosterone, etc. Or how levels of estrogen can be higher in more effeminate men. But it is important to remember correlation is not causation. While we know being born gay is definitely a thing, we don't know how much of it is influenced by genes and how much is influenced by personality and society. We have a lot of exciting research about how some people born prone to things with certain genes can have them switched on and off so to speak based on events that happen as they grow up. So society can literally influence gene expression.To top that off... There is a whole spectrum (bisexuality is a thing as well), and we see social changes in people born straight (aka prison systems and the like) and gay (being married to a woman despite attraction to men). So, the more feminine-like brains could be an influence without being a major component at all. Or a red herring.. and have nothing to do with it. We don't know.

Transexuality is a very complex thing. Very complex. I think it is safe to say that this a part from attraction to the sexes.. because you can have a trans gay person (ftm that like men) just as easily as a trans straight person (ftm that likes women), or trans bi, or trans-only attractions (only attracted to other trans people). It is a whole other can of worms and it is not really in the same categories as homosexuality.

Edit:I should mention I don't subscribe to this non source feminine brain thing. I'm just rolling with it for the sake of argument in case the OP was talking about hormone expression or something to that effect. They're just gay man.

 

[great_bay]

Ok okay thanks anyway.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

I am sorry to jump in here. But we do not 'know being born gay is a thing.'

In fact, it is likely more nurture than nature that turns gay switches on.

 

[great_bay]

I am sorry to jump in here. But we do not 'know being born gay is a thing.'

In fact, it is likely more nurture than nature that turns gay switches on.

You are crazy!

 

[á´…eparted]

I am sorry to jump in here. But we do not 'know being born gay is a thing.'

In fact, it is likely more nurture than nature that turns gay switches on.

Yes we do know it's a thing. You have been disproven of this COUNTLESS time. Stop spreading bullshit.

 

[fetus]

I am sorry to jump in here. But we do not 'know being born gay is a thing.'

In fact, it is likely more nurture than nature that turns gay switches on.

Gay switches?

Gay switches?

Why, cheerio! Mighty fine morning it is today. I think I'll turn my gay switch on.
Oh dear, something bumped my gay switch. Looks like I'm gay now.

But really. Would you say that you're straight because of nurture? Chances are you'd say, "no, this is just the way I am." It's the exact same way with gay, bi, and lesbian folks. It's part of who they are.

And the so-called reparative "therapy" used to turn this "gay switch" off does nothing more than harm and great emotional damage. Just in case we end up on that topic. You can't pray the gay away. It's an innate part of one's identity. I know you're a devoted Christian, so consider this: God makes gay people. They're created that way, and he loves them all the same.

Peace.

 

[nonsequitur]

Generally speaking, it's hard to designate individuals as having a male/female "brain" based on thinking/behavior because we're all mosaics: The brains of men and women aren’t really that different, study finds | Science/AAAS | News

But there's an article about transgendered brains in next month's Scientific American talking about correlations in olfatory stimulation responses in brain imaging and gender identification: Is There Something Unique about the Transgender Brain? - Scientific American Since response to odours cannot be socialised, this suggests that there is a biological basis for defined gender identity at birth.

There's also very good evidence that homosexuality is linked to epigenetic marks which are already defined at birth: Science Magazine: Sign In

 

[prplchknz]

i will never get OMG she's was born a he omg stop the presses! i mean i was when i first learned about it, but it wasn't in an eww gross kind of way more like curious kind of way its like whatever. let people be them, make your life easier stop fighting for what others do to their bodies. its actually very simple.

and the being gay thing, i dunno i've known gay men who were very masculine and you would have no fucking clue they liked other men unless they said so and also ones that were very effement i don't think having a female brain is what makes them gay automatically, but i dunno i am not a gay man and i will never be one. it goes back to my first point, let people be them, stop trying to meddle, damn kids

 

[Bilateral Entry]

The most difficult thing about this topic is that people consider their own sexuality, and then extrapolate it to assume that everyone else is or should be the same. It's hard to see outside ourselves, and that goes for those on both sides of the fence.

I don't really know or care whether homosexuality is nature or nurture, or a combination thereof. I think it should be accepted either way. People's practice or interpretation of religion is really silly a lot of the time. There's other psychological reasons for discrimination too, but I won't get into that.

Guys, seriously, leave [MENTION=6336]AphroditeGoneAwry[/MENTION] alone. She's really sweet once you get to know her.

 

[Dyslexxie]

Wtf is male or a female brain? Really, I don't even know how this is a discussion worth having.

I am sorry to jump in here. But we do not 'know being born gay is a thing.'

In fact, it is likely more nurture than nature that turns gay switches on.

REALLY. Okay let me turn my gay switch off for the day. Good thing you told me about that so I can choose my sexuality for the day however I feel.

 

[21%]

Transexuality is a very complex thing. Very complex. I think it is safe to say that this a part from attraction to the sexes.. because you can have a trans gay person (ftm that like men) just as easily as a trans straight person (ftm that likes women), or trans bi, or trans-only attractions (only attracted to other trans people). It is a whole other can of worms and it is not really in the same categories as homosexuality.

Yes, this!

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

Transsexuals claim to have a different brain want to get their sex change. Gay people have a brain similar to females yet they don't have the urge to get their sex change. Why is this?


Edit: Actually mods, don't delete this thread. I change my mind.

Transexuality is an internal feeling of not identifying as one's biological gender. Gayness is a feeling of being attracted to someone of the same sex for interaction of some kind, minimally, a loving bond of some kind.

Being trans is internal, being gay is more external.

Trans people have a drive to reconcile their body with their internal gender in order to feel 'right'. (please excuse semantics here, I realize there are many variations in these concepts). Gay people have a drive to be with people of the same sex to feel 'right'. In both cases, it is about changing one's biological body or function to match how one is feeling. Feelings come from many sources and are multi-varied. To say that, based on feelings, we can know that a person is gay biologically or transgender biologically is illogical, because feelings can be illogical!

If gay men have a brain similar to females it is simply because they have biologically suppressed their testosterone urges in themselves. We know that new fathers who co-sleep with babies do this as well: their estrogen increases and their testosterone decreases making them more empathic and gentle. Hormones are regulated by the brain. It should not come as a surprise to any intelligent being that this need not be a physical origin, but that it can stem from psychological origins.

Gay switches?

Gay switches?

Why, cheerio! Mighty fine morning it is today. I think I'll turn my gay switch on.
Oh dear, something bumped my gay switch. Looks like I'm gay now.

But really. Would you say that you're straight because of nurture? Chances are you'd say, "no, this is just the way I am." It's the exact same way with gay, bi, and lesbian folks. It's part of who they are.

And the so-called reparative "therapy" used to turn this "gay switch" off does nothing more than harm and great emotional damage. Just in case we end up on that topic. You can't pray the gay away. It's an innate part of one's identity. I know you're a devoted Christian, so consider this: God makes gay people. They're created that way, and he loves them all the same.

Peace.

I think switch is an apt word, and works well.

There seems to be a lot of anger and lashing out on Type C over gayness being from psycho-social origin rather than physical origin. And that living a gay lifestyle is a choice one makes, not something that one has to embrace. I wonder why all the anger?

I BELIEVE (my own opinion): Being gay is a disorder that should be explored for a cause and a treatment. And living a gay lifestyle is a willful choice to act out one's sexual desires in a less-than-ideal way (sinful) way.


Feeling gay is perhaps beyond someone's control, but that does not mean those feelings stem from biological origins. And no study will prove that, because it simply is not true. At least not for the majority of people who identify as 'gay'.

Instead we should be asking, "What makes me have gay feelings?" And, "Why and when did I start feeling gay feelings?" And, "What do I (as a man) feel like I can get from another man that I cannot get from a woman?"

And I think that is where the real interesting studies lie.


~Peace

And, Christians should love unconditionally, no matter what your behaviors are, or what you call yourself.

 

[Captain_Invincible]

This thread made me emotional and threads never make me emotional. Most things especially not words and actions tend to make me feel emotional, but I resonate with some things said here and the struggles behind them.

 

[magpie]

It goes a bit further than similarities between male and female brains. Some might argue that it becomes difficult to define and specify exactly where the actual anatomical differences lie when we define sexes. The way we define sexes is pretty arbitrary itself. So transexuality makes sense but in a way, it doesn't even really matter.

One quickly runs into a problem, however, when trying to define “key” or “essential” feminine and masculine anatomy. In fact, any close study of sexual anatomy results in a loss of faith that there is a simple, “natural” sex distinction that will not break down in the face of certain anatomical, behavioral, or philosophical challenges.

"Ambiguous Sex"--or Ambivalent Medicine? | Intersex Society of North America

 

[á´…eparted]

Transexuality is an internal feeling of not identifying as one's biological gender. Gayness is a feeling of being attracted to someone of the same sex for interaction of some kind, minimally, a loving bond of some kind.

Being trans is internal, being gay is more external.

Gay and transexuality is just as much internal as it is external.

Trans people have a drive to reconcile their body with their internal gender in order to feel 'right'. (please excuse semantics here, I realize there are many variations in these concepts). Gay people have a drive to be with people of the same sex to feel 'right'. In both cases, it is about changes one's biological body or function to match how one is feeling. Feelings come from many sources and are multi-varied. To say that, based on feelings, we can know that a person is gay biologically or transgender biologically is illogical, because feelings can be illogical!

EXCUSE ME. How dare you imply that I (who is gay) or ANYONE one who is gay or transgendered is illogical. Do you know what this is? Hate speech. Pure, unbridled hate speech. You don't know a goddamn thing about any of this. You might not think it is, but guess what, it is.

Do you have ANY clue. ANY inkling or idea how HORRIBLE you are being by saying stuff like this. Sink it into your freaking head. You have been told by SO MANY PEOPLE, SO MANY TIMES, that you are WRONG on this. Factually, provably, wrong, so stop going around saying this kind of offensive lies.

If gay men have a brain similar to females it is simply because they have biologically suppressed their testosterone urges in themselves. We know that new fathers who co-sleep with babies do this as well: their estrogen increases and their testosterone decreases making them more empathic and gentle. Hormones are regulated by the brain. It should not come as a surprise to any intelligent being that this need not be a physical origin, but that it can stem from psychological origins.

You need to look at the links that nonsequitur has spplied. You are spouting unsubstantiated crap with no support. You want to have people take you seriously with these statements? Then provide sources. Oh wait- you can't because there are none. This is nothing more than your own little pet ideas on what all this is, and nothing more. Given all your stances on this, it's not to be taken seriously, or kindly.

I think switch is an apt word, and works well.

There seems to be a lot of anger and lashing out on Type C over gayness being from psycho-social origin rather than physical origin. And that living a gay lifestyle is a choice one makes, not something that one has to embrace. I wonder why all the anger?

The anger comes from the fact that you spout ignorant, hateful bullshit lies. You constantly go around and try to demean, belittle, and call being homosexual wrong. NEWSFLASH! It's not.

Being gay is a disorder that should be explored for a cause and a treatment. And living a gay lifestyle is a willful choice to act out one's sexual desires in a less-than-ideal way (sinful) way.

WOW! So I'm sick? So [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION] is sick? Guess I should go to the doctor and stop being gay or engaging in anything related to it. Oh right! That would actually be quantatively harmful. Gay conversion therapy has proven to be harmful to nearly ALL individuals who.

You don't fix something that isn't wrong to begin with. You need to keep these goddamn opinions to yourself if you feel so strongly on them, because they are bad and harmful. That's right, stuff like this can be harmful and hurtful to say. Let me guess though, you don't think it is. Well? TOO BAD! It won't make it right in the slightest.

Feeling gay is perhaps beyond someone's control, but that does not mean those feelings stem from biological origins. And no study will prove that, because it simply is not true. At least not for the majority of people who identify as 'gay'.

Once again, they DO come from biological origins. We scientifically know this. This is no different than you spouting "gravity isn't real!" Doesn't work that way.

Instead we should be asking, "What makes me have gay feelings?" And, "Why and when did I start feeling gay feelings?" And, "What do I (as a man) feel like I can get from another man that I cannot get from a woman?"

And I think that is where the real interesting studies lie.

Interesting questions to comtemplate, but NOT towards your means to try and justfiy that someone who is gay is sick, broken, or wrong.

~Peace out.

Good riddence. The less you're here the less we have to deal with this hateful shit.

And, Christians should love unconditionally, no matter what your behaviors are, or what you call yourself.

You don't love unconditionally, and this post illustrates that perfectly.

 

[magpie]

WOW! So I'm sick? So [MENTION=17131]Chanaynay[/MENTION] is sick? Guess I should go to the doctor and stop being gay or engaging in anything related to it. Oh right! That would actually be quantatively harmful. Gay conversion therapy has proven to be harmful to nearly ALL individuals who.

You don't fix something that isn't wrong to begin with. You need to keep these goddamn opinions to yourself if you feel so strongly on them, because they are bad and harmful. That's right, stuff like this can be harmful and hurtful to say. Let me guess though, you don't think it is. Well? TOO BAD! It won't make it right in the slightest.




Once again, they DO come from biological origins. We scientifically know this. This is no different than you spouting "gravity isn't real!" Doesn't work that way.

You know, not too long ago homosexuality was listed in the DSM as a mental disorder. If you'd been alive back in the day and been diagnosed with the sociopathic personality disturbance known as homosexuality, would you have questioned your psychiatrist? I bet if you had they would've said you were delusional. What a dilemma.

 

[miss fortune]

I BELIEVE (my own opinion): Being gay is a disorder that should be explored for a cause and a treatment. And living a gay lifestyle is a willful choice to act out one's sexual desires in a less-than-ideal way (sinful) way.

so because YOU believe that it's wrong for someone to be attracted to someone of the same gender and be involved with them we should pursue a "cure" for gayness? who says that it needs to be ended in any way? As long as nobody is hurting anyone else (and we're not talking about people who are here... we're talking about normal, every day people who just want to live their happy lives with a same sex partner instead of opposite sex) why should it matter?

sorry, but the phrasing there kind of... I dunno... raised my hackles a bit?

what was it that the bible said about judging and such?

 

[Coriolis]

I am sorry to jump in here. But we do not 'know being born gay is a thing.'

If you wish to exclude yourself from the "we", that is your prerogative. To be more specific, those who accept demonstrated scientific explanations for natural phenomena know that one's sexual orientation is inborn, be that straight, gay, bi, or other.

There seems to be a lot of anger and lashing out on Type C over gayness being from psycho-social origin rather than physical origin. And that living a gay lifestyle is a choice one makes, not something that one has to embrace. I wonder why all the anger?

I BELIEVE (my own opinion): Being gay is a disorder that should be explored for a cause and a treatment. And living a gay lifestyle is a willful choice to act out one's sexual desires in a less-than-ideal way (sinful) way.

Well, some members here do take umbrage when other members reject the conclusions of science in favor of religious teaching. Imagine, for instance, how you might react to a member who insists that the sun revolves around the earth (unless, of course, you believe that, too?)

Feeling gay is perhaps beyond someone's control, but that does not mean those feelings stem from biological origins. And no study will prove that, because it simply is not true. At least not for the majority of people who identify as 'gay'.

Our choices are always much more within our control than our feelings. All those straight men and women coupling up with each other - this choice is within their control as well. No one forces it on them. They respond to their feelings and desires, just as gay or even polyamourous couples/partners do. Some people override this, e.g. those entering Catholic religious life as priests, brothers, or nuns. The Wiccans have a good rule of thumb for all this: "if it harms none, do as you will".

It goes a bit further than similarities between male and female brains. Some might argue that it becomes difficult to define and specify exactly where the actual anatomical differences lie when we define sexes. The way we define sexes is pretty arbitrary itself. So transexuality makes sense but in a way, it doesn't even really matter.

Exactly. Especially in the modern age when people are not held nearly as strictly to gender expectations, the desire to remake one's physiology as it relates to gender seems somewhat superficial, unless the functionality of the desired gender can be obtained. As such it seems much like getting a nose job, or dyeing one's hair. I support anyone's right to change their body as they see fit, just think there is much more to being a man or a woman than that, and even more to being simply a human being.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

There is no sound proof that being gay is present at birth.