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    Default What is some viable proof of Global Warming?

    Hi,

    basically what the title is; I have just read so many papers and opinions disputing both sides, and I am not really sure of what to make of the idea. Though, I lean very much towards it being of course real.

    It seems like most people you talk to, and most things you read are all over the place, and no one really agrees on the idea wholly. I mean, could it be a hoax made up to scare people...?

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    Senior Member danseen's Avatar
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    global waming is a fact. rising sea levels, ice sheet retreating, how is this not warming? only thing is if this is being caused by humans.
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    Compare today's weather reports from those of 10 years ago and see the difference.
    The issue is wheter humans hold the most responsability for that or not.
    I personally think no, because the sun is continiously growing bigger and getting closer to Earth, naturally we'll feel warmer.
    NASA has detected "global warming" in several other planets and moons of the solar system, namely Mars, where its ice poles have also been melting, Saturn, and Europa, where similar phenomena have been also ocurring. Even if we are really destroying Earth, the solar system is very vast and terraformation can be researched in case we need a second home to exploit resources from. So we should't let Green Peace activistis hold down economical and scientifical development.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1010830 View Post
    Compare today's weather reports from those of 10 years ago and see the difference.
    The issue is wheter humans hold the most responsability for that or not.
    I personally think no, because the sun is continiously growing bigger and getting closer to Earth, naturally we'll feel warmer.
    NASA has detected "global warming" in several other planets and moons of the solar system, namely Mars, where its ice poles have also been melting, Saturn, and Europa, where similar phenomena have been also ocurring. Even if we are really destroying Earth, the solar system is very vast and terraformation can be researched in case we need a second home to exploit resources from. So we should't let Green Peace activistis hold down economical and scientifical development.
    If that is the case, the sun would be warming at an alarming rate.
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    Senior Member nonsequitur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackout View Post
    Hi,
    I have just read so many papers and opinions disputing both sides, and I am not really sure of what to make of the idea.
    Obviously you haven't read enough of them because it should be pretty obvious.

    Skeptical Science Study Finds 97% Consensus on Human-Caused Global Warming in the Peer-Reviewed Literature

    It is considered fact in the literature. Doubt you can find any other issue on earth where there is 97% consensus across 14,000 peer-reviewed papers.

    Also came across this today: US town rejects solar farm after residents say it would suck up all the sunlight

    Allowing these people to decide on policy that affects everyone is a problem. It's also not that surprising that there's an entire group that is so badly educated if it's the "science teacher" who thinks that installing solar panels sucks the sunlight away and kills plants and causes cancer.
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    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Bjorn Lomborg is the author of several books on the subject. A former executive with Greenpeace and an economist, he went about trying to economically justify global warming efforts and came up with the opposite approach.

    Here is his website Get the facts straight | Bjorn Lomborg.

    He points are whether the data is true or not, or approach to responding to it is entirely wrong. The costs of the anti global warming efforts far outweigh the benefits.

    He points at the real truth, that much of this is flawed.

    And given that Dr. Mann and colleagues have been caught altering data to support their conclusions, that many official sources have been caught altering official readings, and even with all that, the global temperature is on a declining trend.....

    Real problems can have better solutions. Clean water and sanitation could be had for the whole world for less than a fraction spent on global warming..... we can help real people have better lives, instead of this questionable proposals that do little bit further agendas unrelated to the environment.
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    Senior Member nonsequitur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Bjorn Lomborg is the author of several books on the subject. A former executive with Greenpeace and an economist, he went about trying to economically justify global warming efforts and came up with the opposite approach.

    Here is his website Get the facts straight | Bjorn Lomborg.

    He points are whether the data is true or not, or approach to responding to it is entirely wrong. The costs of the anti global warming efforts far outweigh the benefits.

    He points at the real truth, that much of this is flawed.

    And given that Dr. Mann and colleagues have been caught altering data to support their conclusions, that many official sources have been caught altering official readings, and even with all that, the global temperature is on a declining trend.....

    Real problems can have better solutions. Clean water and sanitation could be had for the whole world for less than a fraction spent on global warming..... we can help real people have better lives, instead of this questionable proposals that do little bit further agendas unrelated to the environment.
    The global economic costs from climate change may be worse than expected | Brookings Institution

    http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/18/cost-...lion-citi.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern_Review

    Going by Occam's razor, is it not simpler to conclude that there is a serious problem that we must act on, rather than claiming a mass conspiracy theory with thousands of individuals across international government institutions, without any reason to back each other up, altering data in a single direction?
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    breaking out of my cocoon SearchingforPeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nonsequitur View Post
    The global economic costs from climate change may be worse than expected | Brookings Institution

    http://www.cnbc.com/2015/08/18/cost-...lion-citi.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stern_Review

    Going by Occam's razor, is it not simpler to conclude that there is a serious problem that we must act on, rather than claiming a mass conspiracy theory with thousands of individuals across international government institutions, without any reason to back each other up, altering data in a single direction?
    Actually, we know the lies. We know they have been doing it. There is an irrational faith in models. Models are only as good as how they are designed. And we see on Wall Street that similar modeling caused great disaster.

    I suspect the models are not good enough, meaning most are not intentionally misleading the public.

    But even so, Lomborg's numbers and arguments appear sound. He doesn't even need to address the issue of the truth of warming at all. He merely shows that the approach to deal with it has been severely flawed.

    We do know as well that solar impacts are huge, potentially larger than anything else. As such, isn't it premature to radically change society for a 0.5° C reduction in temperature?

    I am all in favor off pollution reducing endeavors. But real pollution, not CO2. I think we can make massive changes to improve the environment. Ones that are not merely tools to put money in certain people's pockets....... or grant more control over people's lives....
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    And I am not a hedgehog......

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    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    Actually, we know the lies. We know they have been doing it. There is an irrational faith in models. Models are only as good as how they are designed. And we see on Wall Street that similar modeling caused great disaster.
    "We"?

    And if by "They" you mean 97% of the literature on climate change, that is again a conspiracy theory. On wall street it was not modeling that caused great disaster. It was algorithms written to maximise private profit from speculation, regardless of facts such as unemployment figures. Billions are made out of creating and exploiting market instability, it has nothing to do with models.

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    I suspect the models are not good enough, meaning most are not intentionally misleading the public.

    But even so, Lomborg's numbers and arguments appear sound. He doesn't even need to address the issue of the truth of warming at all. He merely shows that the approach to deal with it has been severely flawed.
    Meaning: I don't trust models, I don't think the 97% of published literature is good enough, but I like this guy's numbers and arguments because he says what I want to hear.

    Quote Originally Posted by SearchingforPeace View Post
    We do know as well that solar impacts are huge, potentially larger than anything else. As such, isn't it premature to radically change society for a 0.5° C reduction in temperature?
    Solar impact has been accounted for in the vast majority of the literature and the conclusions are the same. In fact we would anticipate this period to be a "cooler" period historically due to solar patterns (if there are no other man-made factors) but global temperatures have been at a historical high. We need to radically change society not "for a 0.5° C reduction in temperature", but because we are already seeing large effects from small changes, and whether we like it nor not, things are going to get worse. Bushfires out of season, extended el ninos, droughts, etc. It's only about limiting damage at this point.

    There will always be different weather patterns and natural disasters. The question is one of frequency. Instead of a Cat 5 hurricane occurring once every 5 years, it occurs twice or three times a year in a single country. How many fundraisers can bail people out? How much will it cost to rebuild every time it happens? And I remember people saying "just don't build in areas like New Orleans" when Katrina happened, but "hurricane zones" are moving further and further north - along approximately the same migration lines as vampire bats, which are tropical but are showing up in places that used to be too cold for it, by the way.

    It's not about a 0.5° C reduction in global temperature (actually even that is inaccurate, it's limiting the anticipated rise in global temperatures to +1.5° C, 0.5° C below the anticipated +2 ° C "tipping point" where changes become irreversible) . It's about reducing the cost that future generations have to suffer and pay for us to keep living like we do - because like the US budget, their livelihoods are already deep in deficit. This is why I get angry when people drag their feet on this. It's not gonna be the boomers, or gen X who will have to deal with this. It might not even be my generation, but my generation's kids will definitely be living with our mistakes.

    This is happening. If we don't take action it is deeply irresponsible and basically suicidal for our species - wait, maybe that's a good thing after all.
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