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  1. #1
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Default Saturated Fats No Longer Bad For You

    Intake of saturated and trans unsaturated fatty acids and risk of all cause mortality, cardiovascular disease, and type 2 diabetes: systematic review and meta-analysis of observational studies

    Saturated fats are not associated with all cause mortality, CVD, CHD, ischemic stroke, or type 2 diabetes, but the evidence is heterogeneous with methodological limitations. Trans fats are associated with all cause mortality, total CHD, and CHD mortality, probably because of higher levels of intake of industrial trans fats than ruminant trans fats. Dietary guidelines must carefully consider the health effects of recommendations for alternative macronutrients to replace trans fats and saturated fats.
    This latest paper (published August 12, 2015) is a meta-analysis of earlier studies. Basically, there is no evidence that saturated fats cause heart disease, strokes, or Type 2 diabetes. I've been saying this for years; it feels great to be vindicated once again.
    Liberty means the ability to say "No thanks, perhaps later. I'm gonna go take a nap now."
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    This latest paper (published August 12, 2015) is a meta-analysis of earlier studies. Basically, there is no evidence that saturated fats cause heart disease, strokes, or Type 2 diabetes. I've been saying this for years; it feels great to be vindicated once again.
    Bro, did you even read the paper:

    In large prospective studies, when polyunsaturated fats replace saturated fats, risk of CHD is reduced but not when MUFA or carbohydrate is the replacement choice.
    In cohort studies that have directly modeled substitution effects, replacement of saturated fat by polyunsaturated fat (with a corresponding increase in polyunsaturated:saturated (P:S) ratio conferred the greatest reduction in risk of CVD [...]
    In other words, saturated fats cause heart disease, though less so than trans fats.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach
    I've been saying this for years; it feels great to be vindicated once again.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Great Satan "Eblis"
    Eblis said, "No man who thinks ill, will hear the truth despite a hundred signs.
    When one who fantasises is presented with reason his fantasies increase.
    When one talks to such a person, their words become the very cause of that person's fantasy. The crusader's sword is a tool for a thief.
    So the response to him is silence and peace; to talk with an idiot is insanity."
    ‘Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves.’

    ‘And we will have made great strides in equality,
    when few have too much and fewer too little.’.
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  3. #3

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    None of this evidence changes my love for fatty foods one way or another.

  4. #4
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam
    Bro, did you even read the paper:
    Yes, but I read it lightning fast (~2 minutes). Did I miss something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam
    In other words, saturated fats cause heart disease, though less so than trans fats.
    I already quoted from the conclusion; that's not what the authors concluded. They found no association; if saturated fats cause heart disease, there would've been an association.
    Liberty means the ability to say "No thanks, perhaps later. I'm gonna go take a nap now."

  5. #5
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I already quoted from the conclusion; that's not what the authors concluded. They found no association; if saturated fats cause heart disease, there would've been an association.
    The unwritten spell-out there in the portion quoted by Adam is that a reduction in x when it is removed means x causes the issue.

    There is word of causation there. If I just said plants did not grow in the shade, it does not mean plants do not grow in shade, that's a correlation. When I say that plants do not grow in shade, and replacing the shade with sunlight caused the plants to grow when other factors remained the same, and taking away that sunlight again stunted their development, then I can start to add causality there.

    The paper states when saturated fats are replaced with unsaturated fats, risks of diseases again and again went down. Enough times to think there's more than just a vague link--but an actual causation.

    Saturated fats do cause heart issues and a slew of problems. Saturated fats in moderation (which is quite a small amount for dietary purposes) alone with diet and exercise will not cause these issues alone, but typically we're talking about an excess outside of the limitations (i.e. every diet ever in a non-starving country). You're right that trans fats are bigger roles in the game, and that it's no good singling out saturated fats and trying to demonize them (demonizing any food group never really helps anyone in health). However, that does not mean saturated fats do no harm and are not something that needs regulation in one's diet.. because that is grossly misunderstanding the information presented here.
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  6. #6
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei
    The unwritten spell-out there in the portion quoted by Adam is that a reduction in x when it is removed means x causes the issue.
    I understand how he arrived at that conclusion, but it's a wrong conclusion. A better interpretation is that polyunsaturated fats protect against heart disease, not that saturated fats cause heart disease.

    There is word of causation there.
    That is one interpretation and the incorrect one.

    Saturated fats do cause heart issues and a slew of problems.
    No it doesn't. Historically, the attempt to link saturated fats with heart disease was part of a marketing campaign to sell shortening. To sell shortening, they had to demonize butter (saturated fats) and the researcher cherry picked data to link saturated fats with heart disease.
    Liberty means the ability to say "No thanks, perhaps later. I'm gonna go take a nap now."
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  7. #7
    morose bourgeoisie
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    I love butter.

    This is good news.
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  8. #8
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Btw, for those interested, the person who perpetrated the original lie was someone named Ancel Keys.

    1. The war against fat was started by one man: Much of what we think we know about the supposed dangers of high fat intake comes from a single research project by a charismatic Minnesota pathologist named Ancel Keys. His Seven Countries Study compared the health and diet of nearly 13,000 middle-aged men in the U.S., Japan and Europe, and ostensibly found that populations that consumed large amounts of saturated fats in meat and dairy had high levels of heart disease, while those who eat more grains, fish, nuts and vegetables did not.
    Keys chose the countries most likely to confirm his hypothesis, while excluding nations like France—where the diet is rich in fat but heart disease is rare—that might have challenged it.
    6 Facts About Saturated Fat That Will Astound You

    Some populations in the Phillipines, Sri Lanka, Thailand, and the Pacific Islands eat lots of coconuts (some consume over 60% of their caloric intake in coconuts). Coconut oil is 27% saturated fat. These populations have low risk of heart disease.

    Also, the 50 year Framingham Heart Study found no connection between saturated fats and increased risk of heart disease and stroke.

    To get a historical perspective, please read:

    The Oiling of America

    A study by a plastic surgeon found that women who consumed mostly vegetable oils had far more wrinkles than those who used traditional animal fats. A 1994 study appearing in theLancet showed that almost three quarters of the fat in artery clogs is unsaturated. The “artery clogging” fats are not animal fats but vegetable oils.42
    Your body makes saturated fats, and your body makes cholesterol—about 2000 mg per day. In general, cholesterol that the average American absorbs from food amounts to about 100 mg per day.
    Cholesterol is needed for proper function of serotonin receptors in the brain.61 Serotonin is the body’s natural “feel-good” chemical. This explains why low cholesterol levels have been linked to aggressive and violent behavior, depression and suicidal tendencies.
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  9. #9
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I understand how he arrived at that conclusion, but it's a wrong conclusion. A better interpretation is that polyunsaturated fats protect against heart disease, not that saturated fats cause heart disease.



    That is one interpretation and the incorrect one.



    No it doesn't. Historically, the attempt to link saturated fats with heart disease was part of a marketing campaign to sell shortening. To sell shortening, they had to demonize butter (saturated fats) and the researcher cherry picked data to link saturated fats with heart disease.
    No, it got demonized because excessive saturated fats showed these trends. Moderation, and appropriate amounts of saturated fats tend to not cause issues... but that is not what people go by because it is not practical to the, particularly American, diet. For the 2,000 calorie diet, 140 calories (16 grams) is recommended. 2 Tbsp of butter would be approaching amount of take-in in a day for a heart-healthy diet. Much more than 16 grams tends to be consumed, and that's the issue. Within recommendations it does not, but 16 grams is not really a lot of wiggle room when you consider the typical diet--even a relatively healthy one tends to go over. You'd have to be a stickler for health to keep under the limits consistently--and that's pretty rare in all reality.

    It is misleading both ways--to say ANY saturated fat causes heart issues, and to say that it causes none. Both are incorrect.
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  10. #10
    Let me count the ways Betty Blue's Avatar
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    Too much of anything is pretty bad for you. Can't think of a single thing you should have in limitless supply food wise, even carrots will poison you if you have too many. Balanced diet with more fresh fruit & veg, cereals, fish/tofu/lean meat and lower amounts of sugary and saturated/trans fatty foods. It's pretty simple and you can make some fantastic meals when you get experimental.
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