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Thread: Time

  1. #11
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    Objects do not experience forces for no reason, and speed (let's call it velocity which is speed+direction) is not a force. The planet orbits the sun at something like 60,000 mph - do you notice that? No, because relatively speaking, speed exerts no force.

    We have energy in the form of inertia but we do not experience this inertia when everything else around is flying along at the same steady clip. This is why you can pick up a coffee cup and not have it rip you to pieces due to the huge amounts of velocity it has.

    So really, no it isn't the stress of going fast. I'm not sure we really know why it happens, but that isn't it.
    Okay this is irritating. I accept what you're saying but (true to type) I don't think it's right but I couldn't tell you why... Not right now anyway.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #12
    is indra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Okay so going back to your earlier post, wouldn't it be more accurate to state that the observer is observing the passage of time at the speed of light? Would this not still be because they are using light to observe and nothing more?
    I think you would do well to study into quantum mechanics, my preference for this field of thought (and it appears you would take well to it also).

    Quantum mechanics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    If Einstein's take on the universe is analog, quantum mechanics is the digital age. Nice stuff.

  3. #13
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Okay this is irritating. I accept what you're saying but (true to type) I don't think it's right but I couldn't tell you why... Not right now anyway.
    It might help to look at it this way.

    With your inertia plus the planet's gravity, your body kind of wants to coast along in equilibrium with its surroundings, with you accelerating mainly towards the planet which is what you experience as weight. When you get in a fast car and accelerate, the car is working against your inertia - your body's tendency to want to remain at rest in relation to its surroundings - and you experience that as a force (G force). It's not the speed that causes the force, it's your body's resistance to a change in relative velocity (and you probably get some vibration and drag but that's besides the point)

    If you don't get a change in velocity, you don't get the force, which is why you'd feel weightless on the ISS for example even though gravity is only like 2% less up there than it is standing on the ground. So you could be traveling at a large fraction of the speed of light through the void of space and time dilation will still apply even though you're not actually accelerating (no force is causing you to move, it is only inertia)

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    my intuition tells me that time does jot equal time bit I'm interested.
    Once again, it is an epistemological question, the perpetual hobgoblin of Typology Central.

    Epistemology is the problem because epistemology is how we see, rather than what we see.

    For instance, time can't be understood with the epistemology of intuition, rather time can be precisely understood using the epistemology of counter-intuition.

    And our egos and vanity stop us from learning to think counter-intuitively, leaving so much of the modern world outside our ken.

    We are like the drunken Irishman who has lost his keys in the dark, but is found on his knees, searching for his keys under the street lamp. And when asked why he is searching for his keys under the street lamp when he has lost his keys elsewhere in the dark. He replies, the light is better here.

    And so we are limited to searching for time by the light of intuition, when it is hiding in counter-intuition.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Ene's Avatar
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    I found a link that might answer some of your questions, or simply make you ask more. It's long, but covers a lot if territory. I like the author's language.

    Quantum Mechanics Made Easy -- Sean Carroll

    I thought I should post info about the author, just so you know it's not me. Sean M. Carroll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    A student said to his master: "You teach me fighting, but you talk about peace. How do you reconcile the two?" The master replied: "It is better to be a warrior in a garden than to be a gardener in a war." - unknown/Chinese

    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=61024&page=14

  6. #16
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunyata View Post
    The observer is always traveling time at the speed of light.

    It is when we incorporate frames of reference that we account for variations of times lapsed among differing observers.



    Think of it like this: Your maximum speed is 60 mph. You can travel north, south, east, west, or any combination across this plane. You can travel 60 mph north, or 60 mph east, and 60 mph northeast. But velocity dedicated to the northern and eastern heading are sacrificed when choosing a northeast heading, due to your 60 mph limitation. This is why you cannot break the speed of light nor achieve absolute zero, according to Einstein's special theory of relativity.
    @Evee
    One slight correction. Absolute zero is not a function of relativity, but of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle: the uncertainty in position * the uncertainty in momentum >= a number on the order of Planck's constant

    At absolute zero, all motion ceases: including that of atoms. But if an atom is not moving, you'd know both its position *and* its momentum (zero) to infinite precision.
    You can also express this as the non-commutation of the relevant quantum mechanical operators.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  7. #17
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Yes, light(not just visible light, but photons in general) determines time, because nothing moves faster than light. You could think it like this: Light is the speed of time because it moves freely in space without mass, while massive objects are sort of slowed down because in them, the energy that they are made out of is tangled up circling in one spot(this is basically what mass is) instead moving freely from point a to b like light does.

    Time is essentially nothing but a moment of observation. And because the moment of observation cant happen before photon travels from point a to b, time is relative to observer and again because light is the fastest thing, it determines time:



    But i think time as a general term is bit outdated because it can mean multiple things.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  8. #18
    is indra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    One slight correction. Absolute zero is not a function of relativity, but of the Heisenberg uncertainty principle: the uncertainty in position * the uncertainty in momentum >= a number on the order of Planck's constant

    At absolute zero, all motion ceases: including that of atoms. But if an atom is not moving, you'd know both its position *and* its momentum (zero) to infinite precision.
    You can also express this as the non-commutation of the relevant quantum mechanical operators.
    The notion is realized through the function e=mc2.

    Propulsion of a body requires infinite mass, and absolute zero requires null mass, or literally, for the said body to be nonexistent.

    The uncertainty principle is another means of explaining it, given it to be true. Yes.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Yes, light(not just visible light, but photons in general) determines time, because nothing moves faster than light. You could think it like this: Light is the speed of time because it moves freely in space without mass, while massive objects are sort of slowed down because in them, the energy that they are made out of is tangled up circling in one spot(this is basically what mass is) instead moving freely from point a to b like light does.
    The Hadron Collider has shown that mass is due to the interaction with the Higgs Field and the Higgs particle.

  10. #20
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunyata View Post
    The notion is realized through the function e=mc2.

    Propulsion of a body requires infinite mass, and absolute zero requires null mass, or literally, for the said body to be nonexistent.

    The uncertainty principle is another means of explaining it, given it to be true. Yes.
    Sources, please?
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

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