User Tag List

First 67891018 Last

Results 71 to 80 of 239

  1. #71
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    She tested the compound 3BP (3-bromopyruvate) on rabbits, mice, and one human and she achieved a 100% success rate.
    I'm not attacking Dr. Ko in any way, science-wise or personal-wise. Do you know how many compounds never make it past animal trials? How many work in animals but don't work in people? I'm not saying she hasn't perhaps uncovered something remarkable, but I have a hard time believing that if something is a perfect cure, it could be suppressed for very long.

    Let's look at it from another perspective. Even the most selfish, self-serving people have relationships and love other people, even if their love for that person is utterly self-serving in and of itself. There are very few humans alive that would watch their child or spouse or parent or friend suffer or die knowing that there's a cure for cancer they're actively hiding from the world in a giant conspiracy to make more money trying to cure cancer in other ways. And even such a person possessing an impenetrable heart couldn't hide it for long, with so many other people closer to the center of the emotional / moral bell-curve around. It would have to be the most massive conspiracy in the world, designed ultimately to reduce the human population and with a massive string of co-conspirators sworn to utter secrecy. But still they would crack.

    From a probability perspective, which is more likely:

    Cancer cure hidden or cancer cure not working?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
    Likes Hard liked this post

  2. #72
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    As for politics... Why is it emotion? Why are scientists being held up as paradigms of virtue? They're a bunch of geeks in open toed sandals who happen to be good with a flame and a flask. I don't recall capes being part of the lab gear.
    So, first people want to criticize scientists for having political viewpoints, and now you want to poke fun at their wardrobe? If we are discussing their work as scientists, factors like these are irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    They are professionals, mostly, but without bias and emotion why would they try anything new or push science forwards? Sheer lunacy.
    What you seem to be talking about here is values. Scientists have them just like everyone else, as do the organizations that sponsor their work. What a scientist ends up working on will be influenced by both his or her individual preferences, as well as the mission of any sponsor. If you are funded by the Heart Association, it stands to reason that you should be researching heart disease and its treatments. We can argue about the merits and utility of researching topic A vs. topic B, but bias on this level, if you want to call it that, is much different from bias in the conduct of an experiment itself. This is where proper use of scientific method will compensate, even for unconscious bias, say in formulation of a hypothesis. Some scientists may not be conscientious about this, but then they are not doing their job right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Should scientists be advocates for a political ideology and use their research to further that ideology? That's what Dr. Mann has done with the statements he's made.
    Scientists should participate in public policy debates by sharing the results of their relevant investigations, so lawmakers and the public at large can make decisions based on sound information rather than the everpresent alternatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I've discredited the entire paleoclimatology profession as pseudoscientific frauds, not just Dr. Mann.
    Not at all, since you have mentioned his work primarily, if not exclusively.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    What kind of precision do you think you can get from using tree rings to guestimate temperature? Dr. Mann thinks it's precise to 0.2 degrees Celcius (insert rofl smiley) with an r value of 0.2. There is better correlation between cheese prices and temperature than tree rings and temperature. Analytical and physical chemists, heck, even biologists would laugh you out the building with that kind of correlation (or lack of correlation).
    This comment betrays a serious lack of understanding of how scientific inquiry is actually conducted. You yourself seem to have little respect for this Mann fellow's methodology. It would seem foolish, then, to use his investigation as the litmus test for the validity of tree ring measurements.

    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    this is a false dichotomy. Scientists are part of the general public.
    Yes, they are. But they make up such a small proportion of the general public that their knowledge in areas where the rest of the public is largely ignorant is insufficient to have a significant effect on polling data.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
    Likes GarrotTheThief liked this post

  3. #73
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 sp/so
    Socionics
    EIE Fe
    Posts
    7,986

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I'm not attacking Dr. Ko in any way, science-wise or personal-wise. Do you know how many compounds never make it past animal trials? How many work in animals but don't work in people? I'm not saying she hasn't perhaps uncovered something remarkable, but I have a hard time believing that if something is a perfect cure, it could be suppressed for very long.

    Let's look at it from another perspective. Even the most selfish, self-serving people have relationships and love other people, even if their love for that person is utterly self-serving in and of itself. There are very few humans alive that would watch their child or spouse or parent suffer or die knowing that there's a cure for cancer they're actively hiding from the world in a giant conspiracy to make more money trying to cure cancer in other ways. And even such a person possessing an impenetrable heart couldn't hide it for long, with so many other people closer to the center of the emotional / moral bell-curve around. It would have to be the most massive conspiracy in the world, designed ultimately to reduce the human population and with a massive string of co-conspirators sworn to utter secrecy. But still they would crack.

    From a probability perspective, which is more likely:

    Cancer cure hidden or cancer cure not working?
    Looks like we'll know soon, because it's entered clinical trials. I suspect it faltered because this was several years ago and there have not been any major news sources talking or reporting about it: PreScience Labs Announced that the FDA Accepts IND Application for Novel Oncology Drug | Reuters

    I also looked around for opinions on the studies: most people are reporting it as flawed or not particuarly news worthy. Mostly in citing the lack of comparability between the model organizisms, or the quality of the cells used being improper. In other words, the studies are flawed, not noteworthy, and as such we haven't heard of it.

    As pointed out, if this was a breakthrough, we'd all be hearing about it. I've also noticed a curious trend that the vast majority of the time, these "scientifically suppressed miracle drugs" are often very small organic molecules. It is extremely rare for these to be effective. One of the exceptions would be cis-platin, and I actually would catagorize that as more complex as it is transistion metal based.

    Honestly, when I first read "3-bromopyruvate" and it's reported effects I thought "yeah ok, and my non exsistant aunt Tilly can wistle dixie under water".
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  4. #74
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,504

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Tellenbach does not believe nor regard scientific consesus, and cherry picks data that supports his claims while ignoring mass data. As such, I really wouldn't take what he says seriously.
    If it's "consensus" then it is not based on reproducible evidence.

    Also, note the following nifty features about that graph:

    a) the total time elapsed in on the order of 2000 years. Go back a wee bit further and the United States was covered in glaciers down to Missouri. Somehow that doesn't show up on the graph.

    b) the y-axis measures the (not defined in the legend) "anomaly" instead of measuring absolute temperatures.

    c) Mann cherry picked the data, based on a proxy. It isn't even actual raw data.

    It's amazing the codswallop people will swallow when you wrap it in a bow and call it "science". 'Specially when it isn't science.
    (Political 'science', computer 'science', climate 'science'...)

    Mann's "hockey stick" is a load of bull hockey. Partly because independent researchers were able to get a "hockey stick" increase with pseudo-random input, partly by cherry-picking the proxy data, partly because the underlying data fed into the model was...err, 'fudged'.

    See iowahawk: Fables of the Reconstruction
    and the links within it, for example

    http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/res...background.pdf

    and

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/0...t-darwin-zero/
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  5. #75
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    937 so/sx
    Posts
    6,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Looks like we'll know soon, because it's entered clinical trials.
    Did you see this link: Systemic delivery of microencapsulated 3-bromopyruvate for the ther... - PubMed - NCBI - that's pretty recent.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching
    Likes Tellenbach liked this post

  6. #76
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx/sp
    Posts
    1,504

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I see there's a lot more to the story than you share here. Some of what I've discovered online about Dr. Ko is from Libertarian sources, making it highly suspect. Do you see that you are yet again cherry-picking information to suit your belief? And your consistently blind belief in these right-wing 'wackadoo' sources, and your consistent denigration of left-wing 'wackadoo' sources, makes you just as unreliable a source as the people you say are wackadoo? Do you see how your polarization is EXACTLY the same thing?

    It's like complaining about people smoking then you lighting up and smoking. You are them, they are you. I don't understand how you don't see that.
    I'd be concerned about the difference between in vitro and in vivo.

    Aaaaaaaaand, there's the little matter of fraud in science, especially in 'hot' areas, trying to make a name for oneself.

    Examples might include Hwang Woo-Suk of South Korean (human cloning), John Darsee (Harvard Cardiologist, IIRC his fraud was discovered when someone attentively reading an article realized one of his 'patients' would have had to become a father at age *7* !), and in a more topical example, Dr. Wakefield's article on vaccines and autism in The Lancet.

    Consensus isn't always the way to bet, either: I recall a certain Nobel Laureate in Medicine who got his award when he deliberately dosed himself with bacteria in order to induce ulcers...

    ...and a Nobel Prize isn't even a guarantee, either, even in one's *own* field. Kary Muellis, for example, who won the Nobel for his work on the polymerase chain reaction, has publicly maintained that HIV is *not* the causative agent for AIDS. So we're back to scoring one for consensus...

    The point is, loudly shouting "Because SCIENCE!" is not compelling.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

    Please comment on my johari / nohari pages.

  7. #77
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 sp/so
    Socionics
    EIE Fe
    Posts
    7,986

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    No I didn't see this one. I didn't look particularly hard. I have access to the paper through my university, but they recent updated the system for it (and COMPLETELY SCREWED IT UP BY DOING SO) so I can't actually get the paper at the moment to look at it. The abstract looks promising though, and the journal has decent impact factor.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  8. #78
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    3,953

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard
    Looks like we'll know soon, because it's entered clinical trials.
    The book describing Dr. Ko's effort was published in 2014 and she was still trying to raise the $3 million necessary to conduct a clinical trial with 20 patients. I'm not sure she's raised that amount yet. I would advise Dr. Ko to stay away from the Mayo Clinic and Sloan Kettering since those institutions were involved in suppressing intravenous Vitamin C and laetrile.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby
    I'm not saying she hasn't perhaps uncovered something remarkable, but I have a hard time believing that if something is a perfect cure, it could be suppressed for very long.
    You need to read about Linus Pauling's battles with the Mayo Clinic and the New England Journal of Medicine. The Mayo Clinic, botched both clinical trials of Vitamin C.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis
    Not at all, since you have mentioned his work primarily, if not exclusively.
    Oh, I've posted a lot more in my blog, many months ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis
    Scientists should participate in public policy debates by sharing the results of their relevant investigations, so lawmakers and the public at large can make decisions based on sound information rather than the everpresent alternatives.
    "THE overwhelming consensus among climate scientists is that human-caused climate change is happening. Yet a fringe minority of our populace clings to an irrational rejection of well-established science. This virulent strain of anti-science infects the halls of Congress, the pages of leading newspapers and what we see on TV, leading to the appearance of a debate where none should exist." Michael Mann

    Coriolis, that quote from Dr. Mann is nothing more than an ad-hominem attack on climate skeptics. It's an irrational argument (again, the appeal to authority). He's doing much more than just sharing research information. He's the attack dog for the radical environmentalist movement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis
    It would seem foolish, then, to use his investigation as the litmus test for the validity of tree ring measurements.
    Mann is not the only one who uses tree ring data to reconstruct temperature records.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby
    It would have to be the most massive conspiracy in the world, designed ultimately to reduce the human population and with a massive string of co-conspirators sworn to utter secrecy.
    One deliberately botched clinical trial with negative results and the treatment would be forbidden by the FDA. It takes $400 million, on average, to bring a drug to market. I doubt Dr. Ko can raise that sort of cash even if the phase I trial was a success.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  9. #79
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    5w6 sp/sx
    Posts
    17,582

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I'm not attacking Dr. Ko in any way, science-wise or personal-wise. Do you know how many compounds never make it past animal trials? How many work in animals but don't work in people? I'm not saying she hasn't perhaps uncovered something remarkable, but I have a hard time believing that if something is a perfect cure, it could be suppressed for very long.
    I don't. But this has nothing to do with scientists like her, and everything to do with politics and economics. Powerful industries who would lose significant market share should a new discovery or invention supplant an established approach have been known to block research, either procedurally or by preventing its funding. Experimental research tends to be expensive, and few scientists have the personal wherewithal to continue in the absence of sponsorship.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #80
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    MBTI
    ISTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5
    Posts
    3,953

    Default

    Hexokinase-2 bound to mitochondria: cancer's stygian link to the "Warburg Effect" and a pivotal target for effective therapy

    This paper describes the theoretical basis for using 3BP to inhibit Hexokinase.

    One remarkable success story [Ko YH, Smith BL, Wang Y, Pomper MG, Rini DA, Torbenson MS, et al. Advanced cancers: eradication in all cases using 3-bromopyruvate therapy to deplete ATP. Biochem Biophys Res Commun 2004;324(1):269-75] is the use of the small molecule 3-bromopyruvate (3-BP) that selectively enters and destroys the cells of large tumors in animals by targeting both HK-2 and the mitochondrial ATP synthasome. This leads to very rapid ATP depletion and tumor destruction without harm to the animals. This review focuses on the multiple roles played by HK-2 in cancer and its potential as a metabolic target for complete cancer destruction.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

Similar Threads

  1. Final decision on my type between INTP and INFP.
    By Cat Brainz in forum What's my Type?
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 11-01-2016, 07:10 PM
  2. Russian Orthodoxy on the rise with decreasing seperation between church and state
    By UniqueMixture in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-05-2012, 01:57 PM
  3. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 11-05-2010, 01:58 AM
  4. on this day midway between solstice and christmas
    By bcvcdc in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-23-2009, 08:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO