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  1. #61
    Lex Parsimoniae Xander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    You can have bias in the scientist as long as it isn't in the science. Bitching about greenies or whatever gets nowhere and produces more inaccurate and inferior results. Because we're wanting so hard for the data to say what we want. That shouldn't be how it works.
    Note I do not support Tellenbach's opinion but bias in the scientist can affect what they look for and thus slant their research even if their scientific method afterwards is to standard.

    Personally I would love to thin of scientists as paragons of balance but my faith in my fellow human isn't strong enough. I find few professionals who are exemplary and far too much evidence for the Peter principle.
    Isn't it time for a colourful metaphor?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starcrash View Post
    The General Public is fucking stupid in the US. Either by genetics or choice.
    The general public is generally stupid but generally there are people who are not stupid... Generally. How many times did I generally use generally?
    "...Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
    I doubted if I should ever come back.
    I shall be telling this with a sigh
    Somewhere ages and ages hence:
    Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
    I took the one less traveled by,
    And that has made all the difference."
    -The Road Not Taken by Robert Frost
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  3. #63
    The Dark Lord The Wailing Specter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Poll Results Show Disparity Between Scientists And American Public On Scientific Issues | IFLScience

    There's been many news articles posted on this over the past several days.




    This is incredibly depressing, angering, and in some cases, dangerous. I've known for a long time that there is a very unfortunate gap between what scientists view as valid, and what they general american public views as valid. I did not know it was this bad though, in some of the issues I am utterly flabbergasted and imbarrasted. The fact of the matter is, science is unbias and speaks for itself. There is no disagreeing with fact. There will always be some naysayers and a bit of disagreement on matters that are more opinion based, but on other matters there truly is a right or wrong answer. How someone can just flagerently ignore fact in favor of fringe low impact material, personal opinion, gut feelings, or simple dislike is absolutely beyond me.

    I really don't know what we can do about this. There is talk about increasing STEM education, but I am not sure that will do quite enough. There are other root problems that might make it intractable. We do need to improve this though, because when the public disagrees with science, even when the science is factually and morally sound as it can be, even when the public is dead wrong it still effects it, and everyone else.

    Discuss.
    How sad.
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  4. #64
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xander View Post
    Note I do not support Tellenbach's opinion but bias in the scientist can affect what they look for and thus slant their research even if their scientific method afterwards is to standard.

    Personally I would love to thin of scientists as paragons of balance but my faith in my fellow human isn't strong enough. I find few professionals who are exemplary and far too much evidence for the Peter principle.
    Yes but the method is the one place where this can be mitigated the most. Practically speaking we can't eliminate it from the scientist because if you look for the perfect scientist you're going to be looking for a very, very long time.

  5. #65
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles
    Practically speaking we can't eliminate it from the scientist because if you look for the perfect scientist you're going to be looking for a very, very long time.
    It took me 10 seconds.

    Dr. Young Hee Ko, a biochemist at Johns Hopkins University, discovered a potent substance which killed every cancer cell she tested it on. She compared her discovery with the standard chemo drugs (carboplatin, cyclophosphamide, doxorubicin, 5-fluorouracil, methotrexate, and paclitaxel) and found that her drug far outperformed what's available on the market today.

    Every time she ran the assay, she saw the same stunning result - 3BP wasn't just better at killing cancer cells than conventional chemotherapy drugs, it was vastly better. Even more shocking, it was vastly better in every type tested: brain, colon, pancreatic, liver, lung, skin, kidney, ovarian, prostate, and breast cancer. In every sample, 3BP dominated the list. - From the book 'Tripping Over the Truth'
    "I just couldn't believe it, so I ran the assays, I'm not kidding, over one hundred times." Dr. Ko

    She also works 16 hour days, 7 days a week and has devoted her life to bringing this drug to market. When asked by parents to test the drug on a dying teen, Dr. Ko sent letters to 500 doctors in the US asking them for help in administering the drug. All of them ignored her, but she did find a European doctor to help the teenager and the treatment was successful.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.
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  6. #66
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    It took me 10 seconds.

    Dr. Young Hee Ko, a biochemist at Johns Hopkins University, discovered a potent substance which killed every cancer cell she tested it on. She compared her discovery with the standard chemo drugs (carboplatin, cyclophosphamide, doxorubicin, 5-fluorouracil, methotrexate, and paclitaxel) and found that her drug far outperformed what's available on the market today.



    "I just couldn't believe it, so I ran the assays, I'm not kidding, over one hundred times." Dr. Ko

    She also works 16 hour days, 7 days a week and has devoted her life to bringing this drug to market. When asked by parents to test the drug on a dying teen, Dr. Ko sent letters to 500 doctors in the US asking them for help in administering the drug. All of them ignored her, but she did find a European doctor to help the teenager and the treatment was successful.
    That speaks more to the benefits of the method than the scientist. Running a test over 100 times also speaks about a scientist that knows they aren't perfect and that nothing is. This speaks about someone who is willing to get themselves out of the way and get the work done.

    Everyone has a bias somewhere. Everyone. The ones who test a lot and are dedicated can overcome the bias. The ones who claim to not have bias are the ones you have to watch out for the most.
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  7. #67
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    this is a false dichotomy. Scientists are part of the general public.
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    it was open
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    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  8. #68
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    this is a false dichotomy. Scientists are part of the general public.
    No it's not. They even specified what they meant by scientist by polling an orginization of scientists. Educationally there is also a big difference between the general average public and scientists.
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  9. #69
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    It took me 10 seconds.

    Dr. Young Hee Ko, a biochemist at Johns Hopkins University, discovered a potent substance which killed every cancer cell she tested it on. She compared her discovery with the standard chemo drugs (carboplatin, cyclophosphamide, doxorubicin, 5-fluorouracil, methotrexate, and paclitaxel) and found that her drug far outperformed what's available on the market today.

    She also works 16 hour days, 7 days a week and has devoted her life to bringing this drug to market. When asked by parents to test the drug on a dying teen, Dr. Ko sent letters to 500 doctors in the US asking them for help in administering the drug. All of them ignored her, but she did find a European doctor to help the teenager and the treatment was successful.
    I see there's a lot more to the story than you share here. Some of what I've discovered online about Dr. Ko is from Libertarian sources, making it highly suspect. Do you see that you are yet again cherry-picking information to suit your belief? And your consistently blind belief in these right-wing 'wackadoo' sources, and your consistent denigration of left-wing 'wackadoo' sources, makes you just as unreliable a source as the people you say are wackadoo? Do you see how your polarization is EXACTLY the same thing?

    It's like complaining about people smoking then you lighting up and smoking. You are them, they are you. I don't understand how you don't see that.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
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  10. #70
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby
    I see there's a lot more to the story than you share here.
    I was going to blog about this remarkable scientist but then sprinkles wanted an example of "a perfect scientist". She is it. She ran the same test 100 times to make sure she wasn't screwing up. The ability to put your ego aside and subject your hypothesis to scrutiny is critical in the sciences. This is completely lacking in climate science. Climate scientists hide their raw data and some even change the historical temperature data to suit their agenda.

    Back to Dr. Ko. She's the scientist who discovered why a mutated protein causes cystic fibrosis.

    "It was a localized folding problem resulting in dysfunctional CFTR (cystic fibrosis transmembrane conductance regulator)." Dr. Ko

    After solving the mystery of cystic fibrosis, she decided to work for Dr. Peter Pedersen at Johns Hopkins. This is the guy who figured out why cancer cells become immortal and multiply uncontrollable. Dr. Ko was looking for an inhibitor that could be transported inside cancer cells and that was a substrate for the problem enzyme (Hexokinase II). She decided on a pyruvate analog since that is the substrate for Hexokinase in the first step of glycolysis. It worked. She tested the compound 3BP (3-bromopyruvate) on rabbits, mice, and one human and she achieved a 100% success rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby
    Do you see that you are yet again cherry-picking information to suit your belief? And your consistently blind belief in these right-wing 'wackadoo' sources, and your consistent denigration of left-wing 'wackadoo' sources, makes you just as unreliable a source as the people you say are wackadoo?
    Hardly. Dr. Ko's published in mainstream journals and she worked for a prestigious scientific establishment. Critique her techniques or her hypothesis if you can.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

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