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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    His presentation of the arguments on either side is asinine. Physicists should stick with science
    And what we're here for? A Scientific Inquisition?

    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    I believe in free will because when I consciously chose to change my habit patterns my fate is altered.
    Sort of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    Take a coin:
    • If the outcome is tails, go outside for a walk of fresh air.
    • If the outcome is heads, continue to browse the forums.

    Right now you are in a state of uncertainty - your choice is yet to be determined. Now throw it.


    Did you make that choice?
    How am I in a state of uncertainty if I determine initial conditions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Quite so.

    Quantum mechanics deals with the almost infinitely tiny, while free will deals with homo sapiens, almost infinitely larger than the quantum.
    So, Homo Sapiens is not from the same universe like the infinitely small?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam View Post
    In my opinion, using the probabilistic nature of QM to argue for the existence of free will does not make sense at all because this indeterminacy is just as incompatible with the idea of free will as the determinism of classical mechanics.
    I think Kaku uses a some kind of dialectical approach.

  3. #23
    The Green Jolly Robin H.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Quite so.

    Quantum mechanics deals with the almost infinitely tiny, while free will deals with homo sapiens, almost infinitely larger than the quantum. The almost infinitely tiny and homo sapiens are in two quite different worlds, operating by different rules. And those who derive free will from quantum mechanics have no intellectual shame.
    but what happens when we split tiny atoms? Sometimes the things that are particularly small are insanely powerful.
    "i shut the door and in the morning
    it was open
    -the end"




    Olemn slammed his hammer and from the sparks on the metal of his anvil came the spheres of the heavens.

    Sayrah blew life into the spheres and they moved. From her wheel she weaved the names of people in to mystery.

  4. #24
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    An interesting documentary about interconectedness of everything




    Excrpt: The following documentary presents new developments in neuroscience and a solution to the many current unsolved problems in phisics.

    –°hapter 1

    God Is In The Neurons

    The human brain is a network of approximately one hundred billion neurons. Different experiences create different neural connections which bring about different emotions.

    And depending on which neurons get stimulated, certain connections become stronger and more efficient, while others may become weaker. This is what`s called neyroplasticity.

    Someone who trains to be a musician will create stronger neural connections that link the two hemispheres of the brain in order to be musically creative.


    Etc.

    The rest of the trancsript via this site

  5. #25
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hacbad macbar View Post
    And what we're here for? A Scientific Inquisition?
    You asked if he were correct. In the spirit of Wolfgang Pauli, I replied, essentially, that he's "not even wrong." Not even wrong - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Newtonian physics does not imply a lack of free will, nor does quantum physics imply that free will must exist. One can postulate free will in a Newtonian or QM universe, and one can postulate determinism in a Newtonian or QM universe. His reasoning is a bunch of hand-waving nonsense, as it tries to take scientific understandings of the world around us and pretend that they imply something about the mysteries of human consciousness.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.
    Likes hacbad macbar liked this post

  6. #26
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarrotTheThief View Post
    but what happens when we split tiny atoms? Sometimes the things that are particularly small are insanely powerful.
    This is true but the way atoms behave and the way the brain behaves are not connected. The brain and atoms are in radically different worlds.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by hacbad macbar View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    Take a coin:
    • If the outcome is tails, go outside for a walk of fresh air.
    • If the outcome is heads, continue to browse the forums.

    Right now you are in a state of uncertainty - your choice is yet to be determined. Now throw it.


    Did you make that choice?
    How am I in a state of uncertainty if I determine initial conditions?
    You are certain what will happen in either of the possible outcomes, you are uncertain on which outcome will apply. Uncertainty does not require perfect ignorance over all variables within a system.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    You are certain what will happen in either of the possible outcomes, you are uncertain on which outcome will apply.
    So, I'm certainly uncertain?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by hacbad macbar View Post
    So, I'm certainly uncertain?
    Yes. You seem to be very uncertain about how certain you are of your lack of certainty, so I'll help: Even when measuring a quantum state of a particle, you know what will show up on your computer depending on which state it's in, you can be certain about the results of any state (the interface displaying the information), and you can be certain those results will reflect on your retina and reach your brain and trigger neural pathways, and you can even be certain that unless something kills you straight after making the measurement, you will need to to pee at some point after. Uncertainty about a variable or condition in a system doesn't require perfect ignorance about all the variables and conditions in that system.

  10. #30
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    This video doesn't seem to argue free will or not as much as it argues uncertainty.

    I don't see NO free will (or Determinism) as having your future already laid out.

    The guy in the video says being around electrons changes them. Is that some big revelation? Just me posting in this thread has changed it, even if it's by a small degree. And what happens next is causal determinism.


    But to me, the question of "Do we have Free Will?" is just as ultimately unanswerable as "Is there a God?" And both have probably been debated for just as long.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

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