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View Poll Results: Do you support eugenics?

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  • Yes

    8 21.05%
  • No

    30 78.95%
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  1. #121
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Mole is a skilled troll, and uses obfsfucating language on purpose. Te users generally like clarity and directness. I find debating INTPs to be "like having to read a text book". When I tell them to distill their points and use clear language, they accuse me of being unintelligent - even when I explain that not being able to express yourself in a way that other people can understand is a sign of low intelligence. lol
    Prove it.

    You should have noticed that no Te users have attempted to divert this thread - we appreciate it when people stay on topic.
    You were the one that brought up the aesthetically pleasing attributes of people around the world. I expanded on that point because I thought it was worth exploring. How is responding to points you raise off topic? Maybe you dislike the way "Ti", if "Ti" exists, arrives at angles you don't expect, blindsiding you. You sense a trap, but you don't know what it is. You fear context, and so seek to place limits on the discussion.



    Please rephrase this post in basic English.
    Gosh, heaven forbid anyone bring up actual biology in a thread where people are invoking the magic of genetics, in a thread about "applied biology". I recommend, first, some introductory language texts, for those of superior breeding such as yourself.

    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  2. #122
    Senior Member TheCheeseBurgerKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Ti is like a ninja, striking you from angles you don't expect.
    No that's the Ne

  3. #123
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by collierm48 View Post
    No that's the Ne
    Probably. I'm not so sure about the function thing these days.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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  4. #124
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    China has already done this with their One Child Policy. But they have abandoned the policy because of its consequences.

    And we should keep in mind that Demography tells us that the world population will stop growing in our lifetime then fall.
    To my knowledge it's supposed to cap out at around 10 million within 3 or so generations (I can't quite remember the exact time frame), and we're all forecast to be able to sustain that. Let me tell you, I was really relieved to learn this. Nevertheless I still support an idea if it becomes a problem, and it wouldn't be one child. It would depend on a number of factors on what the consequences would be.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    Prove it.
    I already have.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    You were the one that brought up the aesthetically pleasing attributes of people around the world. I expanded on that point because I thought it was worth exploring. How is responding to points you raise off topic? Maybe you dislike the way "Ti", if "Ti" exists, arrives at angles you don't expect, blindsiding you. You sense a trap, but you don't know what it is. You fear context, and so seek to place limits on the discussion.
    I was speaking deliberately vaguely. You made the mistake of having a link which showed the name of the model. At that point, your intentions became obvious, especially as I am already used to your style of posting and remember you playing this trick on me before.

    I brought up attractiveness as a general extension of a point about eugenics & diversity. It was consequent on (only makes sense when taken in the context of) something I had mentioned already. That is different to making attractiveness an entirely new subject, which is what you did by posting pictures of people without much if any reference to the OP topic.

    You should be ashamed of yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    I recommend, first, some introductory texts, for those of superior breeding such as yourself. Gosh, heaven forbid anyone bring up actual biology in threads about "applied biology".
    See above. Now, back to subject.

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Please rephrase this post in basic English.

    EDIT: I will be nice today, but understand that most people have little interest or understanding in science. Become the first INTP the in history of the interest who learns to keep your posts to 250 words or less and speaks in concepts and general language when possible.

    Humans have not been through a genetic bottleneck for tens of thousands of years, and the bottlebeck assumed to be cuased by the Toba eruption (c. 70,00 BCE) was meant to have wiped out a considerable amount of the total human population. You refute your own argument again by suggesting on the one hand, the level of genetic diversity is low enough that removing some disabled people will harm humanity as a whole, yet then mention that there are a number of different ways in which mutations can occur in any given individual.

    I want to take a real life example to prove my point that you are not thinking very practically, as well. Look at the current Ebola outbreak. Even if I granted you all the points you have made in the thread, the number of inidviduals who would be resistent to the virus in any given population would be low enough that (untreated) in the worst case scenario of a global pandemic, if they were to survive, a substantial amount of the population would be eredicated. Therefore the diversity would actually be lowered due to the oubreak casuing a severe bottleneck and proceeding too rapidly for useful mutations to spread through the population (which takes many generations).

    This is why modern medicine is needed. And medicine effectively "masks" the need for mutation to some extent.

    You can try and bamboozle people with statistics, but your arguments are divorced from the daily reality. This is typical Ti thinking.
    I think you are being intentionally ignorant. Other people understood. You either did not, or won't admit that you did. I told you about facts, and you say these facts are divorced from reality.

    It's simple. The genetic strength is the genetic diversity of the population. I am using very simple math. Other people got it. Why can't you? One of the others (@jscrothers ) even spelled it out to you in grade school language.

    Ebola (so far) effected only thousands of people, and it was fairly random in the traits aimed at (only geography). 2000<30000 (I hope grade school math isn't too complicated for you). You said 10% of the population aiming specifically at reducing diversity. (700000000>3000) Unless you are backtracking now about what you meant. There is a huge difference.

    @Jarlaxle made the point that the advances made to support our diversity are also a form of strength. It is not a "mask", the things we invent are assets. Without the medical technology, but with the other things, like plane travel, and these things, the Ebola problem would be much worse.

    This isn't the first potential pandemic that our "mask" of medical technology has curbed. We kinda have one every few year (bird flu, swine flu, ...). It is our ability to support the diversity through the understanding we've gained that we have that allows us to combat these things.

    Eugenics (at the 10% rate that you proposed) would be a creation of very own man made bottleneck.

    Don't get me wrong. I am all for transhumanism, gene therapy, etc. But a centrally planned, mass genocide of 10% of the population based on some hypothetically deep understanding of what we believe is good vs. bad? No. Or as @lowtech redneck said, hell no.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  7. #127
    Senior Member TheCheeseBurgerKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Eugenics (at the 10% rate that you proposed) would be a creation of very own man made bottleneck.
    Mitigating genetic features that are in no way beneficial is bottlenecking? .

    Wow..

  8. #128
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Please rephrase this post in basic English.

    EDIT: I will be nice today, but understand that most people have little interest or understanding in science. Become the first INTP the in history of the interest who learns to keep your posts to 250 words or less and speaks in concepts and general language when possible.

    Humans have not been through a genetic bottleneck for tens of thousands of years, and the bottlebeck assumed to be cuased by the Toba eruption (c. 70,00 BCE) was meant to have wiped out a considerable amount of the total human population. You refute your own argument again by suggesting on the one hand, the level of genetic diversity is low enough that removing some disabled people will harm humanity as a whole, yet then mention that there are a number of different ways in which mutations can occur in any given individual.

    I want to take a real life example to prove my point that you are not thinking very practically, as well. Look at the current Ebola outbreak. Even if I granted you all the points you have made in the thread, the number of inidviduals who would be resistent to the virus in any given population would be low enough that (untreated) in the worst case scenario of a global pandemic, a substantial proportion of the population would be eredicated. Therefore, the diversity would actually be lowered due to the oubreak casuing a severe bottleneck and proceeding too rapidly for useful mutations to spread through the population. Presumably you realise that this takes many generations?

    This is why modern medicine is needed. And medicine effectively "masks" the need for mutation, and the weight of your first premise, to some extent.

    You can try and bamboozle people with statistics, but that doesn't strengthen the argument itself. Typical Ti thinking.
    ...what? What he said is perfectly clear and easy to follow. Ygolo is working on a PhD, he pretty damn sure knows what he's talking about and has the authority to speak of what he's speaking of. The fact that you're not even trying to meet him him in the middle here really shows you aren't interested in discussing this matter with anyone that doesn't share the majority of your views on this matter. Quite frankly, why anyone is still trying to debate this with you is beyond me, because there will be no reasoning with you whatsoever. This seems like the case with nearly all of your political and political-related discussions (which is why I almost never try, it would be a complete waste of my energy).

    Additionally, you said earlier that you were joking earlier when you said that Te is superior to Ti. Sure doesn't seem like that from the way you've been talking.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
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    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by collierm48 View Post
    Mitigating genetic features that are in no way beneficial is bottlenecking? .

    Wow..
    My point is you cannot tell ahead of time what is and is not beneficial.

    EDIT: Also, seriously people. Do the math. Eliminating 10% of the population? Are you kidding me?

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  10. #130
    Senior Member TheCheeseBurgerKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    My point is you cannot tell ahead of time what is and is not beneficial.
    . Yeah you can. .

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