Quantum Mechanics, Cause and Effect

[Mole]

Quantum Mechanics gives us our most accurate facts.

And perhaps the most interesting fact is that there is no cause.

Of course we have the illusion of cause but quantum mechanics makes it crystal clear there is no cause.

And so there is no need for a First Cause.

And most things we take for granted are illusions, such as astrology and mbti, and the ability of pilots to fly by the seat of their pants in cloud or at night - yes, all illusions.

But what is amazing is that our minds take so long to catch up with reality, that we live by illusions.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

I wouldn't have taken you for a fan of this:

What the Bleep Do We Know!? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Objective reality is real. I want to throw small rocks at anyone who believes that it isn't.

(This doesn't mean that I claim to know what objective reality is.)

 

[Mole]

I wouldn't have taken you for a fan of this:

What the Bleep Do We Know!? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Objective reality is real. I want to throw small rocks at anyone who believes that it isn't.

(This doesn't mean that I claim to know what objective reality is.)

Quantum Mechanics does tell us what objective reality is. And it also tells us objective reality is so very different from subjective reality.

So we are living in time when subjective reality and objective reality are bifurcated. We live in time when we can't trust our senses or our ideas.

And we have the illusion that if we all share the same subjective reality, we won't even notice the difference from objective reality.

So subjective reality has now become a kind of protection racket, in that, you protect my subjective reality and I will protect your subjective reality, and objective reality can go hang.

 

[Julius_Van_Der_Beak]

So subjective reality has now become a kind of protection racket, in that, you protect my subjective reality and I will protect your subjective reality, and objective reality can go hang.

Ah, well, screw that mentality.

 

[indra]

Yes. I think the most important thing it has to teach us is to cease the presupposition of existence with rationality.

But, the numbers game is a hard one to quit.

I thought I recalled you blasting new-age quantum mumbo jumbo.

 

[meowington]

[MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION] : while I sympathize with most of what you wrote, putting astrology on the same level as MBTI is ludicrous. MBTI is still measurable to some degree and it follows emperical rules. Astrology does not.

 

[Mole]

[MENTION=3325]Mole[/MENTION] : while I sympathize with most of what you wrote, putting astrology on the same level as MBTI is ludicrous. MBTI is still measurable to some degree and it follows emperical rules. Astrology does not.

C'mon, mbti was plagiarised from the book, Psychological Types, by Carl Jung who wrote that, Psychological Types, is based on no empirical evidence.

And Mrs Briggs and Mrs Myers had no qualifictions or training in psychometrics and introduced no empirical evidence into mbti.

But worse, mbti is used in exactly the same way astrology is used - the same psychological tricks, the same tropes, and the same gullible audience.

 

[Mole]

Yes. I think the most important thing it has to teach us is to cease the presupposition of existence with rationality.

But, the numbers game is a hard one to quit.

I thought I recalled you blasting new-age quantum mumbo jumbo.

Of course Quantum Mechanics is based on a rigourous branch of mathematics called Statistics, and is accurate in the physical world to ten decimal places and counting.

So Quantum Mechanics is a triumph of rationality and corresponds with exquisite accuracy with actual existence.

And just as Mary Baker Eddy co-opted the status of science, but not the rationality of science, in the 19th century, to form the religion called, Christian Science, so New Age gurus co-opt the status of Quantum Mechanics, without understanding the mathematics or even the conclusions of Quantum Mechanics.

And in the same way we use mbti without understanding Psychometrics.

 

[meowington]

C'mon, mbti was plagiarised from the book, Psychological Types, by Carl Jung who wrote that, Psychological Types, is based on no empirical evidence.

And Mrs Briggs and Mrs Myers had no qualifictions or training in psychometrics and introduced no empirical evidence into mbti.

But worse, mbti is used in exactly the same way astrology is used - the same psychological tricks, the same tropes, and the same gullible audience.

ok point taken. I didn't say it was built on PhD's, but emperical evidence. But yeah, I see how even that probably doesn't stand.
Still, comparing it to astrology is doing it injustice. All of mbti is up for debate, but personally I can't help but think that concepts like intuïtion vs sensing are very real.

 

[Elocute]

I don't remember much quantum. Is this based on the uncertainty principle?

 

[Mole]

Curioser and Curioser

I don't remember much quantum. Is this based on the uncertainty principle?

The quantum is the smallest anything can be. And just as Alice became smaller and smaller after stepping through the looking glass, the microscope, so things become curioser and curioser as we step through the looking glass into the small world.

But again, just as Alice become bigger and bigger, and we see the world bigger and bigger through the looking glass of the telescope, the world becomes curioser and curioser.

So the very big world of Relativity is so alien we can't even adequately imagine it; and the very small world of Quantum Mechanics is so alien we can't even adequately imagine it. And just to make matters worse, Quantum Mechanics and Relativity are so alien, even to each other, they won't even talk to each other, just like the While Rabbit, the Mad Hatter and the March Hare at the Mad Tea Party.

To meet Alice click on Curiouser and Curiouser

 

[Elocute]

The quantum is the smallest anything can be. And just as Alice became smaller and smaller after stepping through the looking glass, the microscope, so things become curioser and curioser as we step through the looking glass into the small world.

But again, just as Alice become bigger and bigger, and we see the world bigger and bigger through the looking glass of the telescope, the world becomes curioser and curioser.

So the very big world of Relativity is so alien we can't even adequately imagine it; and the very small world of Quantum Mechanics is so alien we can't even adequately imagine it. And just to make matters worse, Quantum Mechanics and Relativity are so alien, even to each other, they won't even talk to each other, just like the While Rabbit, the Mad Hatter and the March Hare at the Mad Tea Party.

To meet Alice click on Curiouser and Curiouser

Thankx. I'll read through this tomorrow when I'm not about to doze off on ambien

 

[Mole]

An Allegory

Yes it is interesting that Through the Looking Glass - What Alice Found There by Lewis Carroll, is about the looking glasses of the microscope and the telescope, where we can see the very small or the very big. And indeed Alice herself becomes very big then very small.

So Through the Looking Glass is an allegory of Quantum Mechanics and Relativity, the very small and the very big.

Who knew?

 

[Cellmold]

ok point taken. I didn't say it was built on PhD's, but emperical evidence. But yeah, I see how even that probably doesn't stand.
Still, comparing it to astrology is doing it injustice. All of mbti is up for debate, but personally I can't help but think that concepts like intuïtion vs sensing are very real.

I used to think that until I realised I was making excuses for what is a load of barnum.

Far from allowing people to appreciate difference, it more often opens up collective hatreds and prejudices, usually as a focus for people we don't like. While there is discussion on differences amongst types, even within those types, that's just a sidestep to ignore a very real threat to it's legitimacy.

You have people endlessly reinventing the theories and coming up with variations just to explain or cover an aspect that hadn't been considered, instead of using that aspect to realised the limitations of such theories. And remember they are theories, they are not facts by any definition of the word.

Recognising a pattern is one thing, recognising the cause of it is something else. With MBTI we have one such theory, but it's only one part of the picture and an overly skewed one at that.

 

[mhc]

But what is amazing is that our minds take so long to catch up with reality, that we live by illusions.

it is the other way around. reality takes so long to catch up with our mind, and reality is the illusion

 

[Mole]

it is the other way around. reality takes so long to catch up with our mind, and reality is the illusion

Look, the work of children is play; and the pupose of play is to learn the distinction between imagination and reality.

Unfortunately those who wish to manipulate us tell us, with a straight face, that reality is an illusion.

We are told reality is an illusion to further illusion us. The illusions pushed on Typology Central are mbti, astrology and the New Age.

We are told there is a sucker born every minute, and our popularity seems to bear this out.

 

[Coriolis]

So subjective reality has now become a kind of protection racket, in that, you protect my subjective reality and I will protect your subjective reality, and objective reality can go hang.

That is religious ecumenism, not quantum mechanics (or MBTI).

C'mon, mbti was plagiarised from the book, Psychological Types, by Carl Jung who wrote that, Psychological Types, is based on no empirical evidence.

And Mrs Briggs and Mrs Myers had no qualifictions or training in psychometrics and introduced no empirical evidence into mbti.

But worse, mbti is used in exactly the same way astrology is used - the same psychological tricks, the same tropes, and the same gullible audience.

Plenty of autodidacts make significant contributions to society and to scholarship without formal credentials. That complaint a red herring. As for empirical evidence, Briggs and Myers based their entire system and its implementation on observations of actual people. Their book, Gifts Differing, explains their process and contains probably the earliest data on application of MBTI. Finally, my Webster's Dictionary can be used in exactly the same way as a doorstop, but that is hardly an indictment of my dictionary.

 

[Mole]

That is religious ecumenism, not quantum mechanics (or MBTI).

Plenty of autodidacts make significant contributions to society and to scholarship without formal credentials. That complaint a red herring. As for empirical evidence, Briggs and Myers based their entire system and its implementation on observations of actual people. Their book, Gifts Differing, explains their process and contains probably the earliest data on application of MBTI. Finally, my Webster's Dictionary can be used in exactly the same way as a doorstop, but that is hardly an indictment of my dictionary.

Webster's American Dictionary was written to deracinate American English.

And apart from cutting Americans off from their English roots, American English is a slap in the face to the Queen's English.

And the Enlightenment applied evidence and reason to religion and makes nonsense of religious ecumenism.

And don't tell me I am off topic or I will scream.

 

[Coriolis]

Webster's American Dictionary was written to deracinate American English.

And apart from cutting Americans off from their English roots, American English is a slap in the face to the Queen's English.

And the Enlightenment applied evidence and reason to religion and makes nonsense of religious ecumenism.

And don't tell me I am off topic or I will scream.

You are off topic. Also, you did not address my point. Feel free to scream, but you might prefer singing instead.

 

[Mole]

You are off topic. Also, you did not address my point. Feel free to scream, but you might prefer singing instead.

Throw away your Webster's American Dictionary and open your Oxford English Dictionary (OED). And so put an end to your deracination by the American revolutionary lexicographer, Noah Webster, and join once again the family of the Queen's English.