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View Poll Results: Do you believe in the farmacy trend?

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39. You may not vote on this poll
  • I'm a hippy and I'm proud of it. Also, I have proof it works. No aluminum DO for me!

    3 7.69%
  • I'm kind of a hippy, but I was brought up that way, and/or I like moral aspects of the trend.

    4 10.26%
  • This is a thing? Who's Jenny McCarthy? I mean, I guess both are fine.

    4 10.26%
  • Science trumps turnips all day. Beets and apples won't keep you from having eczema hunny, sorry.

    24 61.54%
  • I don't really care at all. I can't afford either of them anyways.

    4 10.26%
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Thread: Nature VS Modern Medicine and weeding out what truly works.

  1. #81
    Temporal Mechanic. Array Lexicon's Avatar
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    My vote: Science trumps turnips all day. Beets and apples won't keep you from having eczema hunny, sorry.

    @kyuuei - if you haven't seen Penn & Teller's show, Bullshit! - you definitely need to. Specifically, the episode entitled Organic Food is Bullshit.
    It's somewhat relevant to this thread, in terms of people blindly worshipping "ALL NATURAL" without exploring studies or really analyzing.. anything.

    I think *some* natural remedies are useful, but I always look into articles/actual studies on the stuff before using it. And, I go over it with my physician. My doctor gets paid for my appointment no matter what, she doesn't care about any 'big pharma' conspiracy nonsense. She tells it like it is.

    A good example of a natural remedy my doctor encouraged I use in place of daily NSAIDs for joint pain is turmeric. Just can't take it before surgeries since it increases bleeding. My dermatologist has also applauded the use of witch hazel. Again, it's really important to discuss this stuff with someone well-versed in medicine- like your primary care physician- not simply believing everything you read that goes counter to modern medicine because you hate The Man. /sigh

    It boggles my mind how people can even publish books on so many garbage holistic remedies. I wonder how many people have died over their willful ignorance in this context. Actually, no.. I don't wonder. I don't think I care enough to know, really. In the end people will believe what they need to believe, survival be damned. Perhaps it's simply natural selection at work.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.
    Likes prplchknz, Hard liked this post

  2. #82
    Emperor/Dictator Array kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    My vote: Science trumps turnips all day. Beets and apples won't keep you from having eczema hunny, sorry.

    @kyuuei - if you haven't seen Penn & Teller's show, Bullshit! - you definitely need to. Specifically, the episode entitled Organic Food is Bullshit.
    It's somewhat relevant to this thread, in terms of people blindly worshipping "ALL NATURAL" without exploring studies or really analyzing.. anything.

    I think *some* natural remedies are useful, but I always look into articles/actual studies on the stuff before using it. And, I go over it with my physician. My doctor gets paid for my appointment no matter what, she doesn't care about any 'big pharma' conspiracy nonsense. She tells it like it is.

    A good example of a natural remedy my doctor encouraged I use in place of daily NSAIDs for joint pain is turmeric. Just can't take it before surgeries since it increases bleeding. My dermatologist has also applauded the use of witch hazel. Again, it's really important to discuss this stuff with someone well-versed in medicine- like your primary care physician- not simply believing everything you read that goes counter to modern medicine because you hate The Man. /sigh

    It boggles my mind how people can even publish books on so many garbage holistic remedies. I wonder how many people have died over their willful ignorance in this context. Actually, no.. I don't wonder. I don't think I care enough to know, really. In the end people will believe what they need to believe, survival be damned. Perhaps it's simply natural selection at work.


    Yeah, I definitely use a lot of hippy stuff in my everyday life. Witch hazel is cheaper and more effective than fancy expensive toners at sephora. But dermatologists back that shit up, which is mostly why I switched. There's nothing wrong with someone rich, luxurious, and with nothing to do all day but eat to go on a 100% raw vegan diet like FullyRaw Kristina.. she's under the care of doctors and actually tests that shit. However, most of us do not have that same money, time, and dedication, and thus when I thought I was super smart and tried it, I actually gained weight and felt like garbage and couldn't figure out why I didn't look/feel awesome nor had color changing eyes.

    I'll definitely check that shit out though. Reminds me of the sarcastic "natural foods" logo commercial made by fooderinas.

    There's stuff that's just stupid--like organic cow's milk vs regular cow's milk (there's no real damn difference. Even with the antibiotics.) that's just a ploy to get money because people want to do the right thing for their health.

    Your post reminded me of this site:

    403 Forbidden

    I went there just to check it out--it's a really super cool place. When no one else is there. It's also definitely a cult. Purple might have used to be the color of royalty, but now it only means two things in those amounts: there's a high school/college football day, or you're in a building ran by a cult.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  3. #83
    Senior Member Array YUI's Avatar
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    Haven't read the thread, but I'm sure the subject of vaccines has come up. The "anti-vaccination epidemic" has been in the news lately: Doctors are saying that refusal to vaccinate is on the rise and is causing unnecessary illness and deaths among children.

    Excerpt from a WSJ article:

    In the 1990s, when new vaccines were introduced, the news media were obsessed with the notion that vaccines might be doing more harm than good. The measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine might cause autism, we were told. Thimerosal, an ethyl-mercury containing preservative in some vaccines, might cause developmental delays. Too many vaccines given too soon, the stories went, might overwhelm a child's immune system.

    Then those stories disappeared. One reason was that study after study showed that these concerns were ill-founded. Another was that the famous 1998 report claiming to show a link between vaccinations and autism was retracted by The Lancet, the medical journal that had published it. The study was not only spectacularly wrong, as more than a dozen studies have shown, but also fraudulent. The author, British surgeon Andrew Wakefield, has since been stripped of his medical license.

    But the damage was done. Countless parents became afraid of vaccines. As a consequence, many parents now choose to delay, withhold, separate or space out vaccines. Some don't vaccinate their children at all. A 2006 study in the Journal of the American Medical Association showed that between 1991 and 2004, the percentage of children whose parents had chosen to opt out of vaccines increased by 6% a year, resulting in a more than twofold increase.

    Today the media are covering the next part of this story, the inevitable outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases, mostly among children who have not been vaccinated. [...]
    Link: Paul A. Offit: The Anti-Vaccination Epidemic - WSJ - WSJ (If you only get a partial version of the article requiring a subscription to WSJ, then google "Offit & anti-vaccination" on the general web to find a full version of the article.)

  4. #84
    Senior Member Array ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post

    Did you watch "The Notebook"? I'm pretty sure the lady was diagnosed before she died. Anyway, nice talking to you.
    Alzheimer's Disease can't be definitively diagnosed until after death. Probability of Alzheimer's? Yes. Not the same thing.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  5. #85
    deplorable basketcase Array Tellenbach's Avatar
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    So how accurate are Alzheimers Disease diagnosis? I had to find out, so I dug up this little gem:

    Accuracy of the Clinical Diagnosis of Alzheimer Disease at National Institute on Aging Alzheimer's Disease Centers, 2005–2010

    Sensitivity estimates have ranged between 41% and 100% (median of 87%), while specificity has ranged between 37% and 100% (median of 58%).
    Sensitivity is a measure of how accurately you correctly identify someone as having the disease; specificity is how accurately you identify someone as not having the disease. 41% is lousy; 100% is a pipe dream; the 87% is closer to reality but I suspect it's too optimistic as well.

    Still, the actual accuracy rate is irrelevant to my point that most doctors aren't paying attention to the scientific literature on topics like preventing Alzheimers.

    Link between vitamin D, dementia risk confirmed

    The team studied elderly Americans who took part in the Cardiovascular Health Study. They discovered that adults in the study who were moderately deficient in vitamin D had a 53 per cent increased risk of developing dementia of any kind, and the risk increased to 125 per cent in those who were severely deficient.
    Similar results were recorded for Alzheimer's disease, with the moderately deficient group 69 per cent more likely to develop this type of dementia, jumping to a 122 per cent increased risk for those severely deficient.
    Obama's teleprompter had its own secret service detail and motorcade. I think that was a waste of taxpayer dollars.

  6. #86
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Array Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    The "anti-vaccination epidemic" has been in the news lately: Doctors are saying that refusal to vaccinate is on the rise and is causing unnecessary illness and deaths among children.
    Yes, just yesterday we had a little girl die from whooping cough and she wasn't vaccinated.

  7. #87
    Male Array johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Weed.
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  8. #88
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    Nature is full of medicine and Western medicine is full of mistakes. Trusting innovation for its own sake is equally idiotic and outdated. In the 50s people thought science and plastic would save us all...and look at the unintended consequences it has wreaked. So a balanced approach is absolutely necessary. The cause of a lot of modern ailments I'd poor diet, lack of exercise, lack of sleep and over exposure to technology, which leads to depression and anxiety if not used in balance. It's all about the balance. Technology is good, vaccines obviously save children, but Western medicine is also the fuck hell out of control, it's largely reduced to pharmaceutical marketing, and many minor ailments and general health are better served with natural antibiotics like raw garlic and raw honey (still treats strep and MRSA and doesn't cause mutations). Same with treatment of tumors with some natural substances, when it's basically been proven in many cases chemotherapy just expedites death. But some modern medicine does save lives, naltrexone is practically a miracle substance used to treat a variety of conditions, and I think we should all be happy to not have polio.

  9. #89
    Human Grumpy Cat Array senza tema's Avatar
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    So I don't think eating right will fix cancer and/or ebola single handedly but I also wholeheartedly believe that people would be healthier and happier and need fewer multivitamins if they ate less over-salted, over-sweetened, over-fried food and more fruits and vegetables and yogurt ... and, you know, walked places a little more.

    My family is into eastern medicine like ayurveda and holistic healing so I guess I was brought up that way. I have great respect and admiration for science and medical research but I do fear that the health market is captive to big pharma to a large extent.
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    My vote: Science trumps turnips all day. Beets and apples won't keep you from having eczema hunny, sorry.

    @kyuuei - if you haven't seen Penn & Teller's show, Bullshit! - you definitely need to. Specifically, the episode entitled Organic Food is Bullshit.
    It's somewhat relevant to this thread, in terms of people blindly worshipping "ALL NATURAL" without exploring studies or really analyzing.. anything.

    I think *some* natural remedies are useful, but I always look into articles/actual studies on the stuff before using it. And, I go over it with my physician. My doctor gets paid for my appointment no matter what, she doesn't care about any 'big pharma' conspiracy nonsense. She tells it like it is.

    A good example of a natural remedy my doctor encouraged I use in place of daily NSAIDs for joint pain is turmeric. Just can't take it before surgeries since it increases bleeding. My dermatologist has also applauded the use of witch hazel. Again, it's really important to discuss this stuff with someone well-versed in medicine- like your primary care physician- not simply believing everything you read that goes counter to modern medicine because you hate The Man. /sigh

    It boggles my mind how people can even publish books on so many garbage holistic remedies. I wonder how many people have died over their willful ignorance in this context. Actually, no.. I don't wonder. I don't think I care enough to know, really. In the end people will believe what they need to believe, survival be damned. Perhaps it's simply natural selection at work.

    While I agree with a lot of your post, and it sounds like you have a good doctor if he or she recommended nutrition and natural options in conjunction with Western medicine, Penn and Teller is a biased source, they choose "experts" who share their far right libertarian views, so while some of it might be interesting, they are not a reliable source because of their obvious libertarian slant and have actually had to publicly apologize for at least one episode of their show. Organic food in reality is about half necessary, there are some food where it doesn't make a difference and some where it does.

    They are on par with Fox News or the Guardian (the traditional conservative and liberal shitholes of insane political bias). They cherry pick people who will back their fiscal view of the world.

    I understand that "all organic" may be extremist and unfounded, but their show in reality disproved absolutely nothing. They are entertainers, they set up the show to be entertaining and find ways to win. Anyone could do that if they don't use multiple sources, so they are right maybe half and half, they aren't all bad, but they are not an objective scientific source.

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