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View Poll Results: Do you believe in the farmacy trend?

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  • I'm a hippy and I'm proud of it. Also, I have proof it works. No aluminum DO for me!

    3 7.69%
  • I'm kind of a hippy, but I was brought up that way, and/or I like moral aspects of the trend.

    4 10.26%
  • This is a thing? Who's Jenny McCarthy? I mean, I guess both are fine.

    4 10.26%
  • Science trumps turnips all day. Beets and apples won't keep you from having eczema hunny, sorry.

    24 61.54%
  • I don't really care at all. I can't afford either of them anyways.

    4 10.26%
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Thread: Nature VS Modern Medicine and weeding out what truly works.

  1. #321
    Emperor/Dictator Array kyuuei's Avatar
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    @93JC I just saw an article about this last night. Even when people are trying to go natural, they're being fed snake oils.

    I actually found it on accident reading about gummy multivitamins where it claims to give 100% of vitamin C or whatever, but actually the gummy itself is not broken down well enough to absorb that much and you only get a fraction of the vitamins infused in the gummy.

    There is a very very good reason someone would be just sued to shit if they created a beta blocker pill that lacked any beta blockers, but someone who creates st. john's wart supplements can put essentially pretty colored air in it and nothing will happen to them. I hope this guy does what he sets out to do and puts some real wrath of god fears into these greedy people pretending to be hippy healers.
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  2. #322
    Emperor/Dictator Array kyuuei's Avatar
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    Pediatricians Fight Back Against Anti-Vaxxers, Ban Their Kids | ThinkProgress

    I think this might be a good step in the right direction. There is still a huge "We have a choice in this as parents" even though they're essentially choosing an option that puts their child in immediate harm and danger and saying they'd rather gamble with statistics.. and since it's more of a gray area than "I have a choice to shake my baby if she cries" it's not seen as neglect of child care needs.. and in the light of the fact that apparently anti-vaxxers will ignore any education being pushed their way using strawmen as blame.. Study: You Can't Change an Anti-Vaxxer's Mind | Mother Jones

    .. I think this is a great step in the right direction. "Fine, do what you want, but this is THAT important that I MUST protect my patients.. and if I'm the only pediatrician within 30 miles, so be it. Get your kid vaccinated before you come back to me." I think most institutions should come up with this. Schools, doctor offices, benefit offices like WIC... Children need protection--often times, unfortunately, from their parents themselves.

    I predict a lot of REALLY bad scenarios.. children not getting care, and education, and stuff.. places requiring vaccines having pockets of healthy children, children who are medically exempt being stuck in the middle of the feud, and horrible cesspools of schools and daycares not requiring vaccines being overloaded with kids that are just breeding grounds for outbreaks.. and people not taking any of the responsibility when they open a daycare saying 'We don't care if you don't vaccinate!' and then 3-4 children get tragically ill at the establishment. Which, unfortunately, is probably what it will take before people really get their act together and end this.

    More importantly than educating the parents, I think, is educating the children themselves. If the children are educated, they can at least decide to get the vaccines on their own later.. or they can have more scientific mentalities that can let this nonsense die with the current generation.

    Of course, I'm super bias... I think that doctors should be allowed to save a child's life from a high-cure-rate disease regardless of parents. JW's don't believe in receiving blood products, which essentially is a death certificate for a kid requiring them to live. Hippies don't want their 90% cure rate cancer kid to receive proper treatment for it. To me, that's just as abusive to a child as denying a child life through neglect, abuse, and killing. You're killing your child and not even giving them a chance in life. Children to me ought to be protected at all costs, even if the parent is all frowny-faced about it. Because the truth is, as a society, we turn the switch and flip it quick when the issue ISN'T medically related.. when it's 'Oh, I just shook my baby until she stopped crying. Now she won't eat.' We arrest the woman.. and if she 'believes' it wasn't hurting her child, we say tough shit. Ignorance isn't an excuse in the court of law, it isn't an excuse in situations of abuse and neglect, and it certainly shouldn't be in the case of proven medicine and practice.

    I wish parents were the end-all-see-all of things, and that parents were the MOST important thing in a child's life. But the most important thing in a child's life is opportunity to live it. Parents frequently get in the way of that for many reasons.. and many are selfish, narrow minded, straight up inadequate, and without a real thought in what is best for the child.
    Last edited by kyuuei; 03-06-2015 at 09:18 AM.
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  3. #323
    Emperor/Dictator Array kyuuei's Avatar
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    We were reading some studies in class the other day I enjoyed and found interesting for people on any point on the spectrum: oxidation and oils.

    We know oils can go rancid. Olive oil, coconut oil, etc. etc. They all can expire and be not-so-good after a while. And we sort of know that expiration dates are garbage things arbitrarily made up by companies to cover their asses.

    But when you first open a package of oil, oxidation starts, and studies are showing more and more that sources of free radicals constantly tire our cells out.

    This happens all of the time when we breathe. We take oxygen in, and it's a complex process converting it into something useful.. I'm convinced elves and dwarves in fantasy lands live 100x longer than humans because they can process oxygen better. Anyways, you always end up with free radicals, and anti-oxidants are vitamins that help with those. It's an argument I use to try and show people how.. silly it is to use 'poisons in the body' as an excuse for things, oxygen is absolutely poisonous and noxious to our cells as it is. We have to do a lot of work and energy just to convert it, distribute it, and use it. That's why, even when you're a vegetable, you'll burn calories just breathing.

    But adding more sources of oxidation will mean even more work load. Similar to a heart that's having trouble beating as is, you don't want more fluid than necessary clogging up the lines. And many are already unavoidable.. But now they're thinking that oil starts oxidating the moment it touches air. Which makes sense.. but room temperature, and heated oil and especially heated and REUSED oil has so much oxidation that we have to process that too.

    They're just broaching the subject. Determination of lipid oxidation products in vegetable oils and marine omega-3 supplements

    Which wouldn't be tooooo distressing but look at everything that contains oil: Every fast food thing ever, almost any restaurant food dish, potato chips bought at the store, every dish ever cooked in a kitchen almost, products that go on the face and hair and nails... It permeates much of our lives really.

    The simplest way to slow it down is to do what most people think you don't need to do: refrigerate your oils. Which can be a real pain when you're looking at EVERYTHING with oil in it.

    It's one of those things that makes regular people go, 'omg I'll never get them all refrigerated I'm fine..' and hippies to clamor for some mini-fridges to fill with oils. But either way, the science is there and emerging.
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  4. #324
    Emperor/Dictator Array kyuuei's Avatar
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    A concept I had never heard of before, but apparently has a really great terminology for what I refer to constantly as misrepresented hippy-stuff: Food woo - RationalWiki

    "Woo" is basically what drives me nuts about it all. Fallacies like 'natural is good' 'I survived doing things this way why can't other people' 'people used to do it this way', etc. I listen to a show called Sawbones, a podcast on itunes and tune-in and everywhere else probably, and it goes through medical history of cures for various diseases. You know what else people used to do? Dunk their feet in poop thinking it'd protect them from measles or something like that. And just because you survived measles doesn't mean the disease isn't deadly.
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  5. #325
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    when the shit hits the fan: Belle Gibson and The Whole Pantry app: lessons from a liar

    But the sad reality behind Gibson's dream story is that, it seems, the 'bunch of lies' came from her.

    Gibson has admitted she does not have cancer of the blood, spleen, uterus or liver and that these were a 'misdiagnosis' by a mysterious doctor, whose existence has been questioned by her closest friends.

    It reached a point where friends demanded documentary proof of her various cancers, which The Australian reported, she failed to produce.

    One of the sad truths about Gibson's story is that we all tend to take stories of people's illnesses – as well as heroic accounts of recovery – at face value.

    It is human instinct to show compassion and empathy to those who are suffering, mentally or physically.

    As one former friend of Gibson's said: "At first you think you're a terrible person for questioning her illness. She was always vague about the cancer, where she was treated, her [medical] appointments."

    Now, the questions are not just about Gibson's cancer diagnosis, but also about her supposed method of recovery.

    Her story of beating the odds and becoming empowered again through her health transformation touched people in much the same way that many of us were touched by The Wellness Warrior, Jessica Ainscough.

    Ainscough gained a huge following and a book deal by sharing her personal journey towards health.

    When I spoke to her one year ago, the 29-year-old, I was told, was in "recovery mode".

    Her story and determination were inspiring, but it soon emerged that her cancer had in fact not diminished but become more aggressive. Like her mother who took a similar alternative therapies route and died of cancer in 2013, after seven years battling the disease, Jess tragically lost her battle and died on February 26 this year.

    Jess' family strongly rejects the suggestion that her life would have been extended with conventional treatment and say her treating clinicians said this was not the case.

    But although lifestyle changes such as improving your diet and exercise can significantly reduce your risk of cancer, doctors warn against rejecting conventional treatments for alternative therapies if a person has been diagnosed with cancer.

    "We would recommend that anyone undergoing cancer treatment speak to their doctor about what lifestyle changes may be suitable for them, including diet and exercise," Kathy Chapman, Chair, Nutrition and Physical Activity Committee, Cancer Council Australia, said in a statement. "In many cases cancer patients can, and should be, referred to a dietitian for specific food advice taking into account their situation.

    "While generally maintaining a healthy lifestyle is useful, patients need to have a tailored plan focusing specifically on their situation. Some alternative and complementary therapies and special diets, although seemingly harmless, can be dangerous or interfere with conventional, evidence based, medicine.

    "Once a patient has finished treatment, there is evidence that weight management and physical activity may improve their quality of life, reduce the risk of cancer recurrence and extend or increase cancer survival."

    We all want to see people emerge triumphantly from their struggles. Sometimes people do. Devastatingly for the family, friends and followers of Jess, she did not.

    The Belle Gibson story continues and she has promised an open letter addressing the accusations later this week. Regardless of her response and whether she can verify her health history, her story has raised questions about treading too delicately around such sensitive subjects and seeing the whole picture of human frailty in our search to emerge triumphant.

  6. #326
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    The ‘paleo diet’ is pseudoscience: This is what our ancestral menu really looked like


    Researchers Tom Hatley and John Kappelman noted in 1980 that hominids have bunodont – low, with rounded cusps – back teeth that show much in common with bears and pigs. If you’ve watched these animals forage, you know they’ll eat just about anything: tubers, fruits, leafy materials and twigs, invertebrates, honey and vertebrate animals, whether scavenged or hunted. The percentage contribution of each food type to the diet will depend (you guessed it) on the energetic value of specific foods in specific habitats, at specific times of year. Evidence from the entirety of human evolution suggests that our ancestors, and even we as modern humans, are just as omnivorous.

    And the idea that our more ancient ancestors were great hunters is likely off the mark, as bipedality — at least before the advance of sophisticated cognition and technology — is a mighty poor way to chase game. Even more so than bears and pigs, our mobility is limited. The anthropologist Bruce Latimer has pointed out that the fastest human being on the planet can’t catch up to your average rabbit. Another reason to be opportunistic about food.

    Simple characterizations of hominid ecology are divorced from the actual, and wonderful, complexity of our shared history. The recent addition of pastoral and agricultural products to many modern human diets — for which we have rapidly evolved physiological adaptations — is but one extension of an ancient imperative. Hominids didn’t spread first across Africa, and then the entire globe, by utilizing just
    by @magpie
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  7. #327
    Emperor/Dictator Array kyuuei's Avatar
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    ^ What a great read!
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

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  8. #328
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    Health Canada licensing of natural remedies 'a joke,' doctor says
    Marketplace gets licence for children’s fever remedy with no scientific evidence


    Popular over-the-counter remedies, approved by Health Canada as "safe and effective," may be supported by little to no scientific evidence that the products work, an investigation by CBC’s Marketplace reveals.

    Canadians spend $2.4 billion a year on natural health products.While some products may have clinical trials or other scientific evidence to support their claims, many do not require any scientific proof, and there’s little way for consumers to tell the difference.

    "It's frustrating that the government standards are not protecting the public the way they should be," Dr. Matthew Stanbrook, deputy editor of the Canadian Medical Association Journal (CMAJ), told Marketplace co-host Erica Johnson.

    This is "lending the veneer of approval to something that really hasn't demonstrated the science."

    To test how little evidence is required to get Health Canada to license a product, Marketplace created a children’s remedy, applied for approval and received a licence.

    [...]

    Marketplace created a children’s fever and pain remedy called Nighton, which claimed to provide "effective relief from fever, pain, and inflammation" for children and infants.

    [...]

    To get a licence, Marketplace submitted an application in May, 2014, to Health Canada, and included photocopied pages from A Dictionary of Practical Materia Medica by Dr. John Henry Clarke, a 1902 homeopathic reference book of ingredients, as evidence for its effectiveness.

    In October, Health Canada approved the application for Nighton. (The product remains licensed, but was never manufactured or offered for sale.)
    The product that Marketplace made up, "Nighton" (an anagram of "nothing"), contains a pair of mineral salts that homeopaths have claimed help prevent hemorrhages and cures fevers. In fact they have never been proven to do anything, but a couple pages of anecdotes photocopied out of a century-old homeopathic cookbook was accepted as evidence of their efficacy.

    Iiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting...

  9. #329
    Emperor/Dictator Array kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 93JC View Post
    The product that Marketplace made up, "Nighton" (an anagram of "nothing"), contains a pair of mineral salts that homeopaths have claimed help prevent hemorrhages and cures fevers. In fact they have never been proven to do anything, but a couple pages of anecdotes photocopied out of a century-old homeopathic cookbook was accepted as evidence of their efficacy.

    Iiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting...
    You know, there was a part of me that wanted to jump-react to, "How interesting it would be if experiments like that happened in the US.." .. But there are a slew of them already in all kinds of forms. -_- I think I posted an article recently about supplements not being what they claim to be--to the point of potential danger to allergic people.
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  10. #330
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