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View Poll Results: Do you believe in the farmacy trend?

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  • I'm a hippy and I'm proud of it. Also, I have proof it works. No aluminum DO for me!

    3 7.69%
  • I'm kind of a hippy, but I was brought up that way, and/or I like moral aspects of the trend.

    4 10.26%
  • This is a thing? Who's Jenny McCarthy? I mean, I guess both are fine.

    4 10.26%
  • Science trumps turnips all day. Beets and apples won't keep you from having eczema hunny, sorry.

    24 61.54%
  • I don't really care at all. I can't afford either of them anyways.

    4 10.26%
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Thread: Nature VS Modern Medicine and weeding out what truly works.

  1. #231
    Strongly Ambivalent Array Ivy's Avatar
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    I don't have hypercholesterolemia. My cholesterol levels are all in the "ideal" range.

  2. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColonelGadaafi View Post
    I don't know... but I've never read any extensive body of studies that shows that lactose consumption in lactose intolerant individuals has lead to any serious health complications. There would likely be studies that correlate lactose intolerance with shorter-life term expectancy or adverse complication for it, like drug-usage or alcohol consumption. Like gluten intolerance f.ex or food allergies.
    Lactose intolerant individuals have now been shown to suffer from less of certain types of cancers due to their lack of dairy consumption. ...so these health benefits people are enjoying from lack of dairy seem to contradict the absurd idea we should feed lactose intolerant individuals Lactaise so they can consume dairy. Thus my point to others pages ago.

  3. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    They also have their issues too--mainly, that Japanese people (women particularly though) have TONS of bone issues in later life, and osteoporosis is a major thing being screened constantly in the asian community. That's nearly directly contributed to a low dairy diet without adequate supplementation. I've just spent all semester working with the chinese community center, And I had no idea it was a problem. But it is. Constipation and GI issues, herbal remedies mixing with modern medicines, and bone density issues were the three top complaints. Hardly no one had high blood sugar issues, which makes sense, but the bone aspect was clearly the biggest thing people were concerned about. People lined up out the door for that screening. No one diet is perfect in their approach.

    I love the Japanese diet, I eat it weekly at least, and mediterranean food whenever I get a chance, I'm not so great at cooking that way. But even though they're great diets and have noted benefits, it doesn't mean the Americans are totally off base with nothing to offer. Demonizing American food lately is somehow equivalent to demonizing fast food.. Fast food is a modern phenomenon and has little relations to what Americans ate once and eat now on a daily basis.

    Milk definitely creates mucus, that's well documented, but if you aren't currently suffering a cold, or respiratory distress of some sort, it really doesn't bother. I quit milk for 2 years, and my skin didn't clear, and my allergies didn't go away. Hormones and what time of the month it is had such a bigger influence on my acne. Saying "This could cause this" doesn't mean it's automatically to be avoided. Acne and mucus can also be easily alleviated with good hygiene (for the most part, acne is a whole other beast) and adequate hydration. So, if you hydrate and treat acne either way, why does milk sound like a bad thing? It doesn't. At least not to like a bazillion people out there.

    Everyone has their elixirs. For me it's orange juice, pho vietnamese soup, saline, and hydrogen peroxide as a gargle. I think those things are magical for colds, and they work for me every time. They aren't science.. but they don't have to be really for me. Everything is a cost benefit ratio. I'd much rather drink milk than not. I'd much rather cook food than eat it raw. Yet, there are people who'd disagree with me all over the place. I don't mind, and their valid. Just no more valid than I am with my pho soup.
    I am not talking about individuals liking dairy but rather the aggressive celebrity endorsement surrounding dairy in the West, and the invention of substances like Lactaise, creating a false reality where dairy is fabulous for everyone. Even you seem to believe people get osteoporosis without milk, but there have actually been studies linking dairy consumption to INCREASED osteoporosis, not the other way around. Caucasian women have a similar risk for osteoporosis to Asian women, apart from African Americans and Hispanic population, despite milk consumption being normative in most Caucasian societies.

    While I respect the general tone of your post, I also have to disagree with you that acne is principally a hygeine issue. ...while proper hygeine helps, both high sugar diets and dairy consumption have been linked to chronic acne. Not in all people, which is why the evidence is inconclusive, but removing dairy has worked for a significant number of people.

    Same with mucus. I have met people who are congested nearly 24/7...instead of taking excessive amounts of Claritin, it might do them good to at least try to eliminate dairy.
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  4. #234
    Strongly Ambivalent Array Ivy's Avatar
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    I did a little digging and it seems that the PCRM is closely associated with PETA (founded by a PETA board member, a non-practicing psychiatrist). Not exactly a neutral physicians' organization. Their aim is to promote animal liberation and veganism and they cherry-pick and misrepresent research to that end. 95% of their members are not physicians.

    I have zero respect for PETA and by extension I am not really interested in what the PCRM has to say.
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  5. #235
    deplorable basketcase Array Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei
    They also have their issues too--mainly, that Japanese people (women particularly though) have TONS of bone issues in later life, and osteoporosis is a major thing being screened constantly in the asian community.
    I don't know much about osteoporosis, but a quick search reveals that Vitamin K2 might be important, very important:

    Effects of vitamin K2 on osteoporosis.

    These findings suggest that vitamin K2 may not only stimulate bone formation but also suppress bone resorption in vivo. Clinically, vitamin K2 sustains the lumbar bone mineral density (BMD) and prevents osteoporotic fractures in patients with age-related osteoporosis, prevents vertebral fractures in patients with glucocorticoid-induced osteoporosis, increases the metacarpal BMD in the paralytic upper extremities of patients with cerebrovascular disease, and sustains the lumbar BMD in patients with liver-dysfunction-induced osteoporosis. Vitamin K deficiency, as indicated by an increased circulating level of undercarboxylated osteocalcin, may contribute to osteoporotic fractures.
    Also:

    Treatment with vitamin D3 and/or vitamin K2 for postmenopausal osteoporosis.

    It is established in Japan that treatment with 1alpha-hydroxyvitamin D3 (alfacalcidol) slightly reduces bone turnover, sustains lumbar bone mineral density (BMD), and prevents osteoporotic vertebral fractures in postmenopausal women with osteoporosis, while vitamin K2 (menatetrenone) enhances gamma-carboxylation of bone glutamic acid residues and secretion of osteocalcin, sustains lumbar BMD, and prevents osteoporotic fractures in patients with osteoporosis.
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  6. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I did a little digging and it seems that the PCRM is closely associated with PETA (founded by a PETA board member). Not exactly a neutral physicians' organization. Their aim is to promote veganism and they cherry-pick and misrepresent research to that end.

    I have zero respect for PETA and by extension I am not really interested in what the PCRM has to say.
    Most groups have an agenda. I don't believe our FDA is neutral either, our government is closely tied to corporate welfare and has much too much interest in big business, like the pharmaceutical industry. I mean for example Hard there seems to believe that the drug culture "isn't real" and that if it weren't safe the FDA wouldn't approve it. This is also biased and extremely naive of corporate agendas, no matter his schooling in science, he apparently is ethically buying into the pharmaceutical industry ethics, but strangely believes this is "objective" while a lot of doctors and scientists would oppose his views, including my sister with her background in Biology.

    Kyuuei was actually correct to point out how much of this is philosophical, for example you don't even want to hear what the PCRM has to say because you don't like PETA...but that doesn't make the actual studies they site any less valid.

    I can see how as an Fi dom you are very determined to make your own choices like I am, albeit different choices, from the way you describe your decision to deal with high blood pressure, and that's your right.

    However, multiple views should always be expressed, there is no real science without questioning and dissent, it's not just about observation, people can make observations on their own, you don't have to have a specific committee to approve it.

    My most recent post about people who are lactose intolerant having less forms of certain cancers has nothing to do with PCRM.

  7. #237
    Strongly Ambivalent Array Ivy's Avatar
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    Except that they misrepresent the studies they cite. The AMA is an actual association of medical doctors (as the name implies) and they've repeatedly spoken out against the duplicitous tactics of the PCRM.
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  8. #238
    Strongly Ambivalent Array Ivy's Avatar
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    As for the lactose intolerant/cancer risk thing, it seems to me that you are attributing causation where none has been established. Correlation is not causation. And other studies have had other results- another recent study found that a protein in milk inhibits the growth of colon cancer. So like I said, the research is ambivalent. It all goes back, IMO, to dairy being neither poison nor panacea.
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  9. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    As for the lactose intolerant/cancer risk thing, it seems to me that you are attributing causation where none has been established. Correlation is not causation. And other studies have had other results- another recent study found that a protein in milk inhibits the growth of colon cancer. So like I said, the research is ambivalent. It all goes back, IMO, to dairy being neither poison nor panacea.
    I think there is a strong possibility though that most Westerners are more likely to be biased towards milk than away from it. In the end, my point stands that it seems unnecessary and possibly even harmful to promote dairy the way it has been aggressively promoted in the United States, and this has a lot to do with marketing more than medicine. A lot of Western people seem highly unaware of how marketing of food, beverages and yes pharmaceutical products, is swaying people towards a commercial bias rather than a science-based one. That is why I don't think it's wise at all to discount this research that is coming up, because if I weren't here and the much more academic Tellenbach weren't here, you would all be congratulating and agreeing with each other about "those damn hippies. "

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    this thread has taught me to be quiet. I went to walmart last night because my room mate wanted to do a cleanse (which i think is bs) so i was in the pharmacy section and I wandered cuz there was nothing of interest to me, so then I saw the line thing for the pharmacy (to pick up prescripitions) and they had signs (entrance and exit or something) and I thought they were ipads so I touch one, disappointed that they weren't which would be a good idea for stores to have. especially those hippy stores where's it 450 dollars for something tht doesn't even work or hasn't been proven to work on a large scale. because actually any store and all stores should have this because I get really bored shopping. and ok so what's their advantage? they could brain wash us even more.
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