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View Poll Results: Do you believe in the farmacy trend?

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  • I'm a hippy and I'm proud of it. Also, I have proof it works. No aluminum DO for me!

    3 7.69%
  • I'm kind of a hippy, but I was brought up that way, and/or I like moral aspects of the trend.

    4 10.26%
  • This is a thing? Who's Jenny McCarthy? I mean, I guess both are fine.

    4 10.26%
  • Science trumps turnips all day. Beets and apples won't keep you from having eczema hunny, sorry.

    24 61.54%
  • I don't really care at all. I can't afford either of them anyways.

    4 10.26%
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Thread: Nature VS Modern Medicine and weeding out what truly works.

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    About dairy- it seems to be like eggs, in that research is ambivalent and the tide changes back and forth over time. There doesn't seem to be any consensus about it either way. There's some evidence that it can be harmful in excess, and some evidence that it can be helpful in moderation.

    Personally, eating dairy products in moderation has been a part of my lifestyle change, which has centered around chilling the fuck out about food and ridding myself of my old "good" food/"bad" food mindset in favor of a widely varied diet where nothing is over-represented. Now I drink milk without fear and choose full-fat over skim-- and this has not stopped me from losing weight and improving my quantifiable health markers.

    Study: Eating High-Fat Dairy Lowers Type 2 Diabetes Risk - Forbes
    High dairy fat intake related to less central obesity: A male cohort study with 12 years’ follow-up
    More cheese, please! News study shows dairy is good for your metabolic health -- ScienceDaily

    And a very interesting read on one of my favorite blogs about the "China Study" which is what most who promote vegetarian/vegan diets rely on: The China Study Revisited: New Analysis of Raw Data Doesn
    One of the most reliable sources on the vegan diet from a nutritional angle is Vegan for Life and they do not rely on the China study, in fact they mention it for precisely that reason.

    And again the paleo diet also eliminates dairy.

  2. #202
    Seal Down Array Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    By that token, I don't find it wise to blindly trust any one study without comparing it to other data, either. Especially the way science is reported.

    This x1000. This is the exact thing I have been talking about at several points in this discussion. PhD comics is amazing btw. Not only is it entertaining (granted mostly to those in academia), but it sheds light into scientific problems in fantastic ways. I actually thought of this at a few points in this thread but failed to post it. Thank you.
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  3. #203
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    While it's true that milk can aggravate acne in those prone to it, research doesn't back up the commonly-held idea that milk produces mucus.

    REALLY? - New York Times
    http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-c...m/faq-20058015
    Milk, Mucus and Cough - Australasian Society of Clinical Immunology and Allergy (ASCIA)
    Relationship between milk intake and mucus production in adult volu... - PubMed - NCBI

    And some of the studies I posted above noting health benefits from full-fat dairy are from this year. The research is not conclusive about whether dairy is poison or awesome. My takeaway from that is that it's neither- so if you like it, you should include it in your diet in moderation, and if you don't like it, you shouldn't.
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  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    In the world of science group consensus IS important. I have said this several times to several people so far and it seems like it just doesn't want to be accepted. That is how science works. Period. End of story. No ifs ands or buts. It's not a matter of opinion at all. It is how we validate research, it's how we support findings. It's how ALL fields use it. For this reason, your comparison to hitler doesn't apply. Also, just because the FDA says something, doesn't mean that they personally did it. Quite often, they act as an aggregate and pull from research done throughout the country and sometimes through the world. I am also not blindly trusting them. I have trust in them for a reason, but it is not full faith and trust of course. It's not the only major research institution. We also have the CDC, NIH, ACS, APA, there are tons of groups. The scientific community at large has a collective voice, and they use a channel when data is collected from multiple independent sources.
    You seem to have completely confused your personal interpretation and preferences with fact. The PCRM and NRDC are also groups, you just don't prefer them.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    One of the most reliable sources on the vegan diet from a nutritional angle is Vegan for Life and they do not rely on the China study, in fact they mention it for precisely that reason.

    And again the paleo diet also eliminates dairy.
    A source called Vegan for Life couldn't possibly be biased in any way? Also- paleo is pseudoscientific trash, IMO.
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  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    You seem to have completely confused your personal interpretation and preferences with fact. The PCRM and NRDC are also groups, you just don't prefer them.
    No, I have not. That's because I am not familar with them. From what I can tell they are ethics group and not part of the research community. You simply have a complete lack of understanding of what the scientific process is, and it appears like you will never grasp it either.
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  7. #207
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    I also read recently that some bigwig in the paleo community reversed his position on dairy and it's okay now, and a lot of people are super mad about that. But the paleo community is very contentious, from what I've seen- they don't actually agree on much. Some say legumes are okay, some say not; some say dairy is okay, some say not. None of them seem to understand that paleolithic humans ate whatever they could find and that probably didn't include a lot of hemp milk and almond flour pancakes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    Anecdotal evidence is irrelevant in debate.



    This is not how to debate, you don't tell people to trust you, you provide sources to support your argument.

    You continue to generalise. Pseudoephedrine is not Amphetamine ("legal speed"), the structures are similar, they're in the same chemical class however they're not the same drug.

    Here is Pseudoephedrine:



    Here is Amphetamine:



    Note the difference? The extra methyl (CH3) groups and the hydroxyl group (OH)?




    Good for you but this is irrelevant to the debate.





    Did you ignore what I previously wrote? Certain formulations help with the heeling process. People need their symptoms cleared because (and I don’t advocate this, I believe they should rest during that period) they have careers and family to attend to. Natural remedies don't treat symptoms.
    Deceptive is a perfect name for you since your post largely says nothing. You didn't bother to correct Hard on his or her anecdotes about natural practitioners, just my comment that a licensed M.D. actually advised against using it, not for me as an individual, but for anyone, since it dries you out and keeps you sicker longer. You also didn't bother with many people here and their anecdotes, just me, wonder why that is, possibly only because you disagree with me.

    Secondly, your speed example is totally B.S. since you are making a weak semantics argument, they are the same class of drugs.

    Furthermore, you actually agree with me that people mostly take cold medicine to push through illness instead of resting because they are mostly treating symptoms. No, Sudafed will never actually kill the illness the way Zicam (actually proven to reduce time and severity) or natural antibiotics and antivirals like garlic will. Good night.

    Oh and P.S. if you like hard need FDA approval, even medline.gov agrees with me that Pseudoephedrine treats symptoms but not the underlying cause.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I also read recently that some bigwig in the paleo community reversed his position on dairy and it's okay now, and a lot of people are super mad about that. But the paleo community is very contentious, from what I've seen- they don't actually agree on much. Some say legumes are okay, some say not; some say dairy is okay, some say not. None of them seem to understand that paleolithic humans ate whatever they could find and that probably didn't include a lot of hemp milk and almond flour pancakes.
    Diets will forever be this haze of confusion, they always have been too. It's FILLED with so much pseudoscience. The only people who'd I'd honestly take seriously would be respected registered dietitians if I were to go on a diet or have an issue that could be connected to diet.
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  10. #210
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    Yeah. And even some RDs are pretty orthorexic. I'm trying to move away from that stuff, not towards it.
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