User Tag List

View Poll Results: Do you believe in the farmacy trend?

Voters
39. You may not vote on this poll
  • I'm a hippy and I'm proud of it. Also, I have proof it works. No aluminum DO for me!

    3 7.69%
  • I'm kind of a hippy, but I was brought up that way, and/or I like moral aspects of the trend.

    4 10.26%
  • This is a thing? Who's Jenny McCarthy? I mean, I guess both are fine.

    4 10.26%
  • Science trumps turnips all day. Beets and apples won't keep you from having eczema hunny, sorry.

    24 61.54%
  • I don't really care at all. I can't afford either of them anyways.

    4 10.26%
First 5131415161725 Last

Results 141 to 150 of 343

  1. #141
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,303

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    If the alternative medicine doesn't have any harmful side-effects, what's the harm? I took 12 to 14 grams of Vitamin C (1 gram/hour) for my cold on the testimony of some people on a Vitamin C forum; it works. Vit C killed the cold on day 1. We're in the flu/cold season right now. I'd recommend that everyone take massive doses of Vitamin C the next time they notice the first symptoms of a cold. Report back.
    Garlic and apple cider vinegar as well. I can't believe the number of people I have met who think a substance like Sudafed actually helps their cold, many people are so confused they think this garbage used to treat symptoms will actually heal their cold, when they could cheaply and safely just eat certain foods or drink teas or take a non toxic supplement.

  2. #142
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,303

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Great point and I've considered it, but how many medical conditions are really "cured" using conventional medications? Doctors prescribe statins to treat cholesterol but it doesn't cure the condition. They prescribe a host of hypertension medications to control it but none of them are cures. Some cancers are "cured" but there are many more such as pancreatic cancer which have a very low cure rate. Arthritis isn't cured; eczema isn't cured; psoriasis isn't cured; irregular heartbeats isn't cured; diabetes isn't cured. They really can't cure colds or the flu; they merely seek to reduce the severity of the symptoms.

    For infections, physical injuries, heart attacks and other catastrophic injuries, conventional medicine is the best, but for the chronic conditions....you really can't go wrong with seeking alternative treatments. In fact, I'd say that there are many alternative treatments that are as good and even better than conventional treatments.
    I saw a troubling article about magnesium deficiency and how doctors often just treat the symptoms. So if you had elevated blood pressure due to magnesium deficiency, doctor gives you blood pressure medicine instead, which ends up not treating your deficiency, and it gets worse, so your cholesterol climbs, next thing you know you are on several medication I have a myriad of health problems. ...when you just needed a magnesium supplement.

    In related news, doctors recommending large amounts of calcium have now been disputed because of magnesium deficiency, leading to more cases of osteoporosis.

    It's all about having a good doctor who incorporates a lot of nutrition and natural treatment into the program, because many will just prescribe pharmaceuticals.

  3. #143
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,303

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I'm not really having a discussion with your mother and uncle and cousin now am I? I'm talking to this forum. I'm not hostile towards natural medicine, and I use it all the time. I'm hostile towards how easily people accept SOME natural medicine being legit as ALL natural medicine being legit. Which is annoying at best, and actually causing a lot of harm to community health overall.

    You aren't reading any of my points at all. I'm saying optimistic things about doctors because they are true. They are NOT true for every doctor, nor every practice.

    No one would put as much trust into doctors as a bunch of hippy people are putting into natural medicine. Someone reads a quasi-real-looking article on buzzfeed about how GMOs are bad for you, and bam, suddenly they're bad for you. No research needed, no looking at both sides of the spectrum, let's make farmers and doctors and everyone bad guys for supplying you with NECESSARY food.

    I think a lot of these food trends are easy ways out of real objective research and thought. Gluten free? Even if the generous estimates of half the population are true... That means there are many people out there avoiding gluten for no reason at all, spending money on unnecessary 'medicine' in the form of gluten-free food. People decided to avoid dairy, because fuck it, vegans don't like it and say it's bad for you, so let's quit it. I see it a lot, and I've tried some of it and the more I'm talking to people trying it the more I realized what bullshit was being fed to people for no reason. They were quitting it in the name of health, not in the name of what is truly healthy for them



    I don't have my dentist making my medical decisions is what I meant. YES they have the license or whatever, but there are also 'doctors' of History, and art, and theater, and I don't go to them when I'm sick. I mean a doctor trained in dealing with illness, and doctors trained in health. Dentists specialize. There's nothing wrong with that, we need that, but they aren't magically geniuses at health and well being just because they became a doctor.



    Again, you're illustrating my point entirely. Me posting ANYTHING optimistic about doctors and modern medicine is appalling and alarming and warrants over-reactive comments on my supposed education status, and such and on and on.

    Yet when it comes to super alarming, proven issues with natural medicine, it's all dismissively, "Oh, yeah, that vaccine stuff I agree with but still.." The tone itself you're exuding is exactly what I'm calling attention towards.

    There are just as many bad, nasty, rotten spots in natural medicine out to make money, sell snake oils, and put band aids on shit as there is modern medicine, and yet people are touting one around as if it's some brilliant movement back into the enlightened stone ages while the other is complete filth and garbage with some nice people who know what they're doing trying to desperately cling to a failing system.

    I'm pointing out that for every bad point you make on modern medicine, I can put one on natural medicine, and both of them have good, great, fantastic practitioners and terrible, ugly, money-hungry ones.

    I prefer, overall, modern medical practices because I like the concept of washing your hands, sanitation, developing food that everyone can eat because it's proven people live longer when they have food, etc. etc. Those are modern concepts I agree with and support IN general. I don't like the seemingly objective but just as emotionally driven moral-high-horse people touting around natural medicine like it's some new bible of medicine we lost in a cave somewhere and just discovered.


    Morals are not medicine. Those are society driven, subjective things. It may be more moral to, for example, eat whole foods vs GMO foods or whatever. I don't know if it is or not, and I'd argue it isn't. But trying to turn that into science that just isn't there doesn't make it more objective. These are things being argued about for a reason--the science isn't there. Vaccines have hundreds of years and science backing it up, tons of research and tons more of modern recent research, and people STILL don't believe that shit works and are scared it'll fuck you up and fear monger anyone that thinks otherwise. I don't expect GMO debates, or many others, to be objective for a very very long time.


    Most doctors specialize, and your tone in the poll is glib and actually dismisses things that will probably be soon proven (for example deodorant without aluminum is sponsored by breast cancer research and eating a vegetable based diet does seem to decrease people's risk of certain cancers and heart disease, as well as certain other conditions, in the long run keeping the health care industry from making money off of terminal illness). Yeah you are a bit hostile, grouping all hippies together (what if I said all rednecks from Texas do xyz? ) and dismissing things to a point that seem overly conservative, where as I see merits in both sides, as do my relatives who have similar or even more "training" than you have (you claimed your training had something to do with your beliefs and I was disputing that, as well as your assertion that a dentist wasn't a doctor much earlier, you are grasping at straws).

  4. #144
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,303

  5. #145
    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    MBTI
    DEUS
    Posts
    162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    It's not that simple. As the study concluded:

    Given the observational study designs with the inherent possibility of residual confounding and reverse causation phenomena, a cautious interpretation of the results is recommended.
    Another thing, from the article you linked -

    Every other species weans and then never drinks milk again for the rest of their lives, and because of that they don’t have an enzyme to break down the sugar in milk. But during human evolution, some humans experienced a mutation in the LTC gene, the lactase gene, these mutations allow us to process lactose as adults. With approximately 65- 75 percent percent of humans on the planet unable to properly process it, it is evidence enough that we are not doing what is natural and in accordance with our bodies.
    this is a completely ridiculous thing to write. It's estimated that 8% of the world's population have blue eyes - is that also "not natural"? Arjun Walia is an amateur with an agenda and lacking any semblance of critical thought. I suggest you find another conveyor of science on which to base your opinions.
    ‘Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves.’

    ‘And we will have made great strides in equality,
    when few have too much and fewer too little.’.
    Likes Ivy liked this post

  6. #146
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,303

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam View Post
    It's not that simple. As the study concluded:



    Another thing, from the article you linked -



    this is a completely ridiculous thing to write. It's estimated that 8% of the world's population have blue eyes - is that also "not natural"? Arjun Walia is an amateur with an agenda and lacking any semblance of critical thought. I suggest you find another conveyor of science on which to base your opinions.
    There are multiple studies on the effects of milk and their sources include the British Medical Journal and the American Society of Pediatrics as well as the university used in the study, and there have been studies done at Harvard. Take into account as well that 75 percent of the population is much higher than eight percent. I think you are the one lacking critical thought, probably because you don't like to be told everything you thought was right is wrong, that's usually the case with average people, which is why it was such a pain in the ass to get people to quit smoking.

  7. #147
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,303

    Default

    Health Concerns about Dairy Products | Physicians Committee

    There is adequate evidence from multiple sources that are not "hysterical hippies" or "snake oil salesmen" that dairy is not as good as people once imagined. Also when 3/4 of the population is lactose intolerant, it seems quite absurd to make a comparison to a genetic trait which only occurs in eight percent of the population. Interestingly, these studies are being largely conducted on the groups which have the lactose digestive adaptation, and the results still aren't boding well. The problem here seems to be lack of education of people in this thread on current medicine, ironically, not the shrieking of fanatic vegans as kyuuei implied. Just know too that collective evolution is not a vegan zine.

  8. #148
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,794

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    your tone in the poll is glib and actually dismisses things
    ...
    Yeah you are a bit hostile, grouping all hippies together (what if I said all rednecks from Texas do xyz? )
    My tone was meant to be glib and a bit dismissive, because that's how I feel. I think people are putting FAR more stock into natural medicine blindly, and I'm seeing it all the time, and I'm also seeing a lot of dismissal from doctors and modern medicine. I've made my disclaimers in here, I'm not repeating them constantly. So, yeah, it was meant to be a bit sarcastic and bias. I never claimed it was objective.. I'm willing to discuss the topic, and I have obvious opinions on it. If you're offended by those opinions, I'm sorry? I'm not making you change your mind, and I'm not here to convince you that I'm right or anything. It was more meant as an, 'Anyone with me on this? Eh? Yes? Oh okay cool. No? Sure, you can say why I guess. This isn't here for that, but sure why not.'

    And I hear Texans xyz all the time.. some of it is definitely true enough to warrant that, some isn't. It's certainly not going to ruin my day if someone tells me I'm a Texan so I'm x.

    I definitely made my tone very clear that I was like "I'd like to hear actual evidence and experience from people into natural medicine, but otherwise I'm more looking to see if anyone else has noticed this us vs them trend that I don't approve of.." You're free to make a more objective thread based on evidence if you're wanting something more debate-y.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge
    Likes Hard liked this post

  9. #149
    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    MBTI
    DEUS
    Posts
    162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini View Post
    There are multiple studies on the effects of milk and their sources include the British Medical Journal and the American Society of Pediatrics as well as the university used in the study, and there have been studies done at Harvard.
    That doesn't matter. I am not questioning the integrity or quality of the research referenced; I am questioning the conclusions you and yours are drawing from it. Unless you are an expert in the subject, you should not try to extrapolate a different result from a paper than what is written in its conclusion:
    A higher consumption of milk in women and men is not accompanied by a lower risk of fracture and instead may be associated with a higher rate of death. Consequently, there may be a link between the lactose and galactose content of milk and risk as suggested in our hypothesis, although causality needs be tested using experimental study designs. Our results may question the validity of recommendations to consume high amounts of milk to prevent fragility fractures. The results should, however, be interpreted cautiously given the observational design of our study. The findings merit independent replication before they can be used for dietary recommendations.
    Takeaways:
    • Higher milk consumption may not lower risk of bone fracture
    • Higher milk consumption may be associated with higher rate of death
    • Causality remains to be tested
    • Authors advise caution given weakness of their study design
    • Their findings require independent replication to increase certainty


    Take into account as well that 75 percent of the population is much higher than eight percent. I think you are the one lacking critical thought, probably because you don't like to be told everything you thought was right is wrong, that's usually the case with average people, which is why it was such a pain in the ass to get people to quit smoking.
    You didn't get my point. It's 25% (lactose tolerant) vs. 8% (blue eyes), making blue eyes much more of an "unnatural mutation" (ref. your click bait article) than lactose tolerance because 92% do not share the mutation. Your argument is not sensible.

    Instead of listening to men in the middle who distil the scientific results and add their own special ingredients to the mix, why don't you seek out the knowledge at its source by reading the actual papers? You will realize that these matters are rarely as conclusive as you seem to think. From the Swedish paper:

    In contrast, intake of cheese and fermented milk products is related to higher high density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, less insulin resistance, and a lower risk of myocardial infarction.
    ‘Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves.’

    ‘And we will have made great strides in equality,
    when few have too much and fewer too little.’.
    Likes Hard, Ivy, Raffaella liked this post

  10. #150
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,303

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Adam View Post
    That doesn't matter. I am not questioning the integrity or quality of the research referenced; I am questioning the conclusions you and yours are drawing from it. Unless you are an expert in the subject, you should not try to extrapolate a different result from a paper than what is written in its conclusion:


    Takeaways:
    • Higher milk consumption may not lower risk of bone fracture
    • Higher milk consumption may be associated with higher rate of death
    • Causality remains to be tested
    • Authors advise caution given weakness of their study design
    • Their findings require independent replication to increase certainty




    You didn't get my point. It's 25% (lactose tolerant) vs. 8% (blue eyes), making blue eyes much more of an "unnatural mutation" (ref. your click bait article) than lactose tolerance because 92% do not share the mutation. Your argument is not sensible.

    Instead of listening to men in the middle who distil the scientific results and add their own special ingredients to the mix, why don't you seek out the knowledge at its source by reading the actual papers? You will realize that these matters are rarely as conclusive as you seem to think. From the Swedish paper:
    You are really hanging on to that dairy is not natural inference. ..but it's true for most "non whites" which make up a sizable percent of the world's population. Therefore dairy consumption, in fact, is not natural for nearly 3/4 of the world's population. That is actually good advice for people who don't happen to have the digestive adaptation, who are A MINORITY when blanket statements about milk being good for everyone were pushed for twenty years by the dairy board (hilarious to me that kyuuei had no problems with celebrity endorsement when it happens to be something she likes). Read the second link that I posted, the site is entirely run by physicians (over 12,000).

    Evolution can't be proven either, but I bet you argue reasonable cause for that. Hey if you want to key drinking milk, that's your business, I am not trying to convert anyone, but the fact remains that you guys are ignoring mounting scientific evidence.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • :hi:
  • :bye:
  • :)
  • :hug:
  • :happy2:
  • :smile:
  • :wubbie:
  • :D
  • :wink:
  • ;)
  • :newwink:
  • :(
  • :cry:
  • :mad:
  • :dry:
  • :doh:
  • :shock:
  • :huh:
  • :shrug:
  • :blush:

Similar Threads

  1. 8 Cognitive Processes Dominant and 2ndary Interactions: What They Look Like
    By Usehername in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-26-2012, 12:23 PM
  2. Mood altering medicine and MBTI
    By Poser in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-06-2008, 04:30 AM
  3. Greetings of an INxx (trying to figure out what I am)
    By TenebrousReflection in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: 10-05-2007, 01:56 AM
  4. Replies: 24
    Last Post: 09-25-2007, 09:34 PM
  5. Has anyone heard of Global Dimming and if so what are your thoughts on it??
    By ladypinkington in forum Science, Technology, and Future Tech
    Replies: 42
    Last Post: 09-16-2007, 06:13 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO