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Is Teleportation Possible?

Mane

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For the most part continuity is an illusion: Your consciousness gets restarted every time you go to sleep. Cells digest new matter until they die and get replaced by other cells, there's probably not a single molecule in your body that you were once born with. At any moment a big chunk of you is dying and getting replaced by another you.

Are you afraid of that death? Is the new tissue not your own? Do you go to sleep fearing the death that will happen as another you takes over your brain in the morning?
 

Caw the rooks

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For the most part continuity is an illusion: Your consciousness gets restarted every time you go to sleep. Cells digest new matter until they die and get replaced by other cells, there's probably not a single molecule in your body that you were once born with. At any moment a big chunk of you is dying and getting replaced by another you.

Are you afraid of that death? Is the new tissue not your own? Do you go to sleep fearing the death that will happen as another you takes over your brain in the morning?

Yes but the form is retained throughout and thus the processes that it creates remains intact.
 

Mane

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Yes but the form is retained throughout and thus the processes that it creates remains intact.

So if the process is distrupted and restarted later, its a new person? Don't we revive people who's process has being in some way disrupted in ICU's all the time? Are they brand new once you do that?
 

Mole

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Teleportation in the typical sense, of copying the entire atomic structure of the body and reconstructing it elsewhere after disintegrating the original, wouldn't work, because it destroys consciousness; that is, the consciousness that's streaming through your brain right now, which is what you refer to as "I". The discontinuation of that will kill you off. The new, identical body will be an exact replica, but won't be you, as the consciousness - the first-person perspective - that makes up who you are has been discontinued. The new body will of course be conscious, and the experience will be almost exactly as it was when you were alive (as it is working off the same brain and body physiology, memories and thought patterns), but the prior experience or stream of consciousness (which is you) has been erased.

Yes, teleportation depends on the religious principle of dualism, where we have a body and a soul. So teleportation kills the body but saves the soul. Does this not sound familiar? Is this not preached in chuches, mosques and synagogues, as life after death?

But today, teleportation is right up to the minute, and so is part of the Woo Hoo of the New Age.
 

Mane

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Yes, teleportation depends on the religious principle of dualism, where we have a body and a soul. So teleportation kills the body but saves the soul. Does this not sound familiar? Is this not preached in chuches, mosques and synagogues, as life after death?

But today, teleportation is right up to the minute, and so is part of the Woo Hoo of the New Age.

Except that in the religious principle of dualism you are required to blindly believe that it's already there - that a metaphysical medium of a soul carrying all the information of who you are and the makings of your consciousness already exists. In contrast, teleportation in any form relies on the prospect that we would be able to create that medium - not that the universe stores who you are in some metaphysical object but that we'd be able to store it in a physically known object, whether that medium is straightforward entangled quantum waves (as the article suggested) or digital information (as many others have suggested).

The similarity is skin deep - the bones of the analogy are made of straw ;)
 

Mole

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Except that in the religious principle of dualism you are required to blindly believe that it's already there - that a metaphysical medium of a soul carrying all the information of who you are and the makings of your consciousness already exists. In contrast, teleportation in any form relies on the prospect that we would be able to create that medium - not that the universe stores who you are in some metaphysical object but that we'd be able to store it in a physically known object, whether that medium is straightforward entangled quantum waves (as the article suggested) or digital information (as many others have suggested).

The similarity is skin deep - the bones of the analogy are made of straw ;)

I can't help feeling teleportation along with telepathy, the assumption of the Prophet Mohammed into Heaven on a winged horse, the transfiguration of Jesus and his assumption into Heaven, and the assumption of Mary, the Mother of Jesus, into heaven, and life after death, is a religious belief.

Of course you rationalise teleportation beautifully. But the other religious beliefs, mentioned above, are also beautifully rationalised.
 

Mane

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But the other religious beliefs, mentioned above, are also beautifully rationalised.

Someone fantasized of flying, and thought of angels, others fantasized of flying, and they were the Right Brothers. The desire to defend your mind from the trap of religion is more then understandable, even admirable. But to defend yourself from anything that shares anything with religion will stand in your way of thinking of all that is beyond our arm's reach, because religion and innovation do share a common source - not that of blind belief but that of human imagination. Faith is what comes afterwards.

And for faith, examine yourself: To defend your belief, you have invented an ammo to shoot all which contradicts it - after all if it's all nothing but rationalization, there's no need to examine the rational that your belief might be wrong, and thus no need to question your belief. That is not the mental working of understanding or even skepticism, that is the mental working of faith.
 

Mole

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Someone fantasized of flying, and thought of angels, others fantasized of flying, and they were the Right Brothers. The desire to defend your mind from the trap of religion is more then understandable, even admirable. But to defend yourself from anything that shares anything with religion will stand in your way of thinking of all that is beyond our arm's reach, because religion and innovation do share a common source - not that of blind belief but that of human imagination. Faith is what comes afterwards.

And for faith, examine yourself: To defend your belief, you have invented an ammo to shoot all which contradicts it - after all if it's all nothing but rationalization, there's no need to examine the rational that your belief might be wrong, and thus no need to question your belief. That is not the mental working of understanding or even skepticism, that is the mental working of faith.

The reason I write is that the meaning of my post is your response.

I don't see my post as free standing. In fact my assertions are balanced by your critique.

I depend on your critique to be free to make my assertions.

And indeed how could you possibly make your critique without my assertions?
 

Chthonic

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I actually think bilocation to be a more immediate goal than teleportation. We can already acheive a certain amount of bilocation already. When you skype somewhere and use a digital camera for eyes, its a rudimentary form of bilocation. The ultimate form of it would be to have physical control of a remote body and experience all that body in the remote location experiences. So the question really is, can we focus our consciousness in a remote location and control a locally present body with it? This I think is a more immediately acheivable technological goal.
 

Mole

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I actually think bilocation to be a more immediate goal than teleportation. We can already acheive a certain amount of bilocation already. When you skype somewhere and use a digital camera for eyes, its a rudimentary form of bilocation. The ultimate form of it would be to have physical control of a remote body and experience all that body in the remote location experiences. So the question really is, can we focus our consciousness in a remote location and control a locally present body with it? This I think is a more immediately acheivable technological goal.

The electronic media have abolished time and space. Before electronic media it took three months for a letter to reach me, now you speak to me in real time.

And with time and space abolished, we are now disembodied.

However our minds have not caught up with this reality, and we still think and act as though we are embodied.

So we are absurd.

We are so absurd, we talk about teleporting bodies that no longer exist.

How absurd can we be?
 

Totenkindly

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Why wouldn't they? Everything we've seen so far suggests that those are all embodied within our structure. Copy the structure, you copy the inner workings it's structured to produce. Unless there was some part of the structure which wasn't accessible to us (a.k.a. soul).

I think there is a larger question, and that is of the continuity of self:
Someone told you that there is (or going to be) someone exactly like you, your body, your thoughts and feelings, your memories, the same digestive bacteria. Does that make your own self redundant? Would you be ok with shooting yourself because somewhere out there there's someone who is just like you? Are you the same person?

I just finished reading Jack L. Chalker's "The Four Lords of the Diamond" series and that's the whole premise to the narrative(s). Basically, there's a four-world system where criminals are sent from the Confederation and once within proximity to any of the four planets, their bodies are infested with microbe-like creatures that prevent them from ever leaving the system again alive.

But the lord of each world is conspiring with outside intelligences, so the Confederation takes a detailed memory scan of their best agent and imprints it on a convicted criminal heading into each of the worlds, to assassinate the reigning Lord on each world if possible and at least to discover information regarding the conspiracy.

The first chapter of each book relates a similar anecdote where the secret agent gets his mind scan, and then wakes up still thinking he is "him" -- and then realizing s/he is actually one of the duplicates, then having to deal with initial thoughts of inauthenticity and just being a copy. As expected, though, the same personality imprinted in a different body begins to have different experiences based on that body and its unique set of experiences from that point forward, so the source and his four "copies" begin to diverge in personality to some degree.

To answer your question, I don't see people as entirely identical once their physical proximity diverges and they begin undergoing unique experiences. Just the mere reality of me standing "here" and you standing "there" results in a different perspective, however slight, that continues to diverge as more tiny differences accumulate. This is why identical twins with the same genetic makeup can have unique identities and personality traits over time.

... I do share the same thoughts about teleportation, though, and it brings to the forefront what the "continuity of consciousness" would be if it exists. Technically it's the assembly of atoms that is unique, not the atoms themselves; so we could "reconstruct" someone if we had the tech to attempt that reconstruction, but our consciousness is proximity-anchored -- it typically exists within a physical body. Is it just a byproduct of the composition of that body or does it exist apart from the body? Would the consciousness I feel as "myself" transport to a duplicate of myself constructed somewhere else? It doesn't seem likely if consciousness is a byproduct. So the deconstruction of a body and reconstruction elsewhere is really just a human Xerox process; you'd be disintegrating yourself and creating a duplicate elsewhere that seems like you to everyone else, but the "you" that felt aware in this body is not really the "you" that is aware in that body. But that new "you" wouldn't even be able to tell because of continuity of memory. (One movie that explores this issue is Christopher Nolan's "The Prestige.")
 

Mole

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We have the telephone and the television, so surely the next step is teleportation?

Of course all this is dependent on a teleological view of the world. And the teleological view is the view through the rear vision mirror, and we are missing what is rushing towards us through the windshield.
 

Mal12345

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We have the telephone and the television, so surely the next step is teleportation?

Of course all this is dependent on a teleological view of the world. And the teleological view is the view through the rear vision mirror, and we are missing what is rushing towards us through the windshield.

zJeFU.gif
 

Mane

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But that new "you" wouldn't even be able to tell because of continuity of memory.

Perhaps that and the resulting psychological affects are all that's required?

Animal testing is done, and the first person tries it. As far as everyone can tell he is alright and is the exact same person. He experienced no pain or light in the end of a tunnel, there was no sign of an elderly fading, of sickness or of visible violence. His relationships continue just as they once did, his family experiences the same person. If he is a religious person, whatever counts in his life for spiritual experiences will continue. If he would have diverged from the original, we will never know.

It looks safe, it is experienced as safe. and ofcourse - it is advertised as safe. The philosophical arguments against it would be treated no differently then the religious arguments against safe sex.
 

Mal12345

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This is a tribute to my independence.

My integrity doesn't need the support of 'friends'.

My integrity stands by itself.

These 'friends' of which you speak are a psychological protection racket.

Does that include badger, ratty, and toad?
 

Totenkindly

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Perhaps that and the resulting psychological affects are all that's required?

Animal testing is done, and the first person tries it. As far as everyone can tell he is alright and is the exact same person. He experienced no pain or light in the end of a tunnel, there was no sign of an elderly fading, of sickness or of visible violence. His relationships continue just as they once did, his family experiences the same person. If he is a religious person, whatever counts in his life for spiritual experiences will continue. If he would have diverged from the original, we will never know.

It looks safe, it is experienced as safe. and ofcourse - it is advertised as safe. The philosophical arguments against it would be treated no differently then the religious arguments against safe sex.

Well, like I said, from the external perspective, there is no measurable difference or impact.

We're talking more about the locus of the individual consciousness... but it would have to assume that a person is more than a byproduct of a particular arrangement of molecules that naturally generates a particular centralized self-awareness.
 

kiddykat

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I'm having difficulty finding the documentary I was referring to, but the narrator suggested that if a person could be teleported via quantum teleportation, yes, essentially they would die and a copy of themselves would appear at a distant location. But the question arises, even if your molecular composition was reconstructed, would it still have all of your thoughts, memories, feelings etc...?
I love your question!! I'd be curious too..

I hope teleportation is possible. How would it happen when traveling through time without compromising a physical body or energy in tact? And, history, memory, feelings could all change, as it's a matter of perception. So, time traveling into the future or backwards won't always produce the same results, and I wonder in some cases, are we really going back in time to resolve something or moving forward to prevent something? Kinda disrupts the natural law of ebb and flow, and creates disharmony possibly. Because there would be multiple time-travelers, and each traveler has their own agreement of what happened, and how does one decide the time is right or if ever was, can be, or really is? Chaos. It'd be a muddled experience! Interesting though..:blush:
 

Mole

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I love your question!! I'd be curious too..

I hope teleportation is possible. How would it happen when traveling through time without compromising a physical body or energy in tact? And, history, memory, feelings could all change, as it's a matter of perception. So, time traveling into the future or backwards won't always produce the same results, and I wonder in some cases, are we really going back in time to resolve something or moving forward to prevent something? Kinda disrupts the natural law of ebb and flow, and creates disharmony possibly. Because there would be multiple time-travelers, and each traveler has their own agreement of what happened, and how does one decide the time is right or if ever was, can be, or really is? Chaos. It'd be a muddled experience! Interesting though..:blush:

Relativity make it plain it is physically impossible to travel backwards in time, however Relativity says it is possible to travel foreward in time, but to travel foreward in time, we need to also travel through space.

So we can't travel forward in time sitting in the same place.
 
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