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  1. #31
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    Why wouldn't they? Everything we've seen so far suggests that those are all embodied within our structure. Copy the structure, you copy the inner workings it's structured to produce. Unless there was some part of the structure which wasn't accessible to us (a.k.a. soul).

    I think there is a larger question, and that is of the continuity of self:
    Someone told you that there is (or going to be) someone exactly like you, your body, your thoughts and feelings, your memories, the same digestive bacteria. Does that make your own self redundant? Would you be ok with shooting yourself because somewhere out there there's someone who is just like you? Are you the same person?
    I just finished reading Jack L. Chalker's "The Four Lords of the Diamond" series and that's the whole premise to the narrative(s). Basically, there's a four-world system where criminals are sent from the Confederation and once within proximity to any of the four planets, their bodies are infested with microbe-like creatures that prevent them from ever leaving the system again alive.

    But the lord of each world is conspiring with outside intelligences, so the Confederation takes a detailed memory scan of their best agent and imprints it on a convicted criminal heading into each of the worlds, to assassinate the reigning Lord on each world if possible and at least to discover information regarding the conspiracy.

    The first chapter of each book relates a similar anecdote where the secret agent gets his mind scan, and then wakes up still thinking he is "him" -- and then realizing s/he is actually one of the duplicates, then having to deal with initial thoughts of inauthenticity and just being a copy. As expected, though, the same personality imprinted in a different body begins to have different experiences based on that body and its unique set of experiences from that point forward, so the source and his four "copies" begin to diverge in personality to some degree.

    To answer your question, I don't see people as entirely identical once their physical proximity diverges and they begin undergoing unique experiences. Just the mere reality of me standing "here" and you standing "there" results in a different perspective, however slight, that continues to diverge as more tiny differences accumulate. This is why identical twins with the same genetic makeup can have unique identities and personality traits over time.

    ... I do share the same thoughts about teleportation, though, and it brings to the forefront what the "continuity of consciousness" would be if it exists. Technically it's the assembly of atoms that is unique, not the atoms themselves; so we could "reconstruct" someone if we had the tech to attempt that reconstruction, but our consciousness is proximity-anchored -- it typically exists within a physical body. Is it just a byproduct of the composition of that body or does it exist apart from the body? Would the consciousness I feel as "myself" transport to a duplicate of myself constructed somewhere else? It doesn't seem likely if consciousness is a byproduct. So the deconstruction of a body and reconstruction elsewhere is really just a human Xerox process; you'd be disintegrating yourself and creating a duplicate elsewhere that seems like you to everyone else, but the "you" that felt aware in this body is not really the "you" that is aware in that body. But that new "you" wouldn't even be able to tell because of continuity of memory. (One movie that explores this issue is Christopher Nolan's "The Prestige.")
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #32
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    We have the telephone and the television, so surely the next step is teleportation?

    Of course all this is dependent on a teleological view of the world. And the teleological view is the view through the rear vision mirror, and we are missing what is rushing towards us through the windshield.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    We have the telephone and the television, so surely the next step is teleportation?

    Of course all this is dependent on a teleological view of the world. And the teleological view is the view through the rear vision mirror, and we are missing what is rushing towards us through the windshield.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    This is a tribute to my independence.

    My integrity doesn't need the support of 'friends'.

    My integrity stands by itself.

    These 'friends' of which you speak are a psychological protection racket.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    But that new "you" wouldn't even be able to tell because of continuity of memory.
    Perhaps that and the resulting psychological affects are all that's required?

    Animal testing is done, and the first person tries it. As far as everyone can tell he is alright and is the exact same person. He experienced no pain or light in the end of a tunnel, there was no sign of an elderly fading, of sickness or of visible violence. His relationships continue just as they once did, his family experiences the same person. If he is a religious person, whatever counts in his life for spiritual experiences will continue. If he would have diverged from the original, we will never know.

    It looks safe, it is experienced as safe. and ofcourse - it is advertised as safe. The philosophical arguments against it would be treated no differently then the religious arguments against safe sex.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    This is a tribute to my independence.

    My integrity doesn't need the support of 'friends'.

    My integrity stands by itself.

    These 'friends' of which you speak are a psychological protection racket.
    Does that include badger, ratty, and toad?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #38
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    Perhaps that and the resulting psychological affects are all that's required?

    Animal testing is done, and the first person tries it. As far as everyone can tell he is alright and is the exact same person. He experienced no pain or light in the end of a tunnel, there was no sign of an elderly fading, of sickness or of visible violence. His relationships continue just as they once did, his family experiences the same person. If he is a religious person, whatever counts in his life for spiritual experiences will continue. If he would have diverged from the original, we will never know.

    It looks safe, it is experienced as safe. and ofcourse - it is advertised as safe. The philosophical arguments against it would be treated no differently then the religious arguments against safe sex.
    Well, like I said, from the external perspective, there is no measurable difference or impact.

    We're talking more about the locus of the individual consciousness... but it would have to assume that a person is more than a byproduct of a particular arrangement of molecules that naturally generates a particular centralized self-awareness.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #39
    movin melodies kiddykat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    I'm having difficulty finding the documentary I was referring to, but the narrator suggested that if a person could be teleported via quantum teleportation, yes, essentially they would die and a copy of themselves would appear at a distant location. But the question arises, even if your molecular composition was reconstructed, would it still have all of your thoughts, memories, feelings etc...?
    I love your question!! I'd be curious too..

    I hope teleportation is possible. How would it happen when traveling through time without compromising a physical body or energy in tact? And, history, memory, feelings could all change, as it's a matter of perception. So, time traveling into the future or backwards won't always produce the same results, and I wonder in some cases, are we really going back in time to resolve something or moving forward to prevent something? Kinda disrupts the natural law of ebb and flow, and creates disharmony possibly. Because there would be multiple time-travelers, and each traveler has their own agreement of what happened, and how does one decide the time is right or if ever was, can be, or really is? Chaos. It'd be a muddled experience! Interesting though..

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiddykat View Post
    I love your question!! I'd be curious too..

    I hope teleportation is possible. How would it happen when traveling through time without compromising a physical body or energy in tact? And, history, memory, feelings could all change, as it's a matter of perception. So, time traveling into the future or backwards won't always produce the same results, and I wonder in some cases, are we really going back in time to resolve something or moving forward to prevent something? Kinda disrupts the natural law of ebb and flow, and creates disharmony possibly. Because there would be multiple time-travelers, and each traveler has their own agreement of what happened, and how does one decide the time is right or if ever was, can be, or really is? Chaos. It'd be a muddled experience! Interesting though..
    Relativity make it plain it is physically impossible to travel backwards in time, however Relativity says it is possible to travel foreward in time, but to travel foreward in time, we need to also travel through space.

    So we can't travel forward in time sitting in the same place.

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