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  1. #21
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    For the most part continuity is an illusion: Your consciousness gets restarted every time you go to sleep. Cells digest new matter until they die and get replaced by other cells, there's probably not a single molecule in your body that you were once born with. At any moment a big chunk of you is dying and getting replaced by another you.

    Are you afraid of that death? Is the new tissue not your own? Do you go to sleep fearing the death that will happen as another you takes over your brain in the morning?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    For the most part continuity is an illusion: Your consciousness gets restarted every time you go to sleep. Cells digest new matter until they die and get replaced by other cells, there's probably not a single molecule in your body that you were once born with. At any moment a big chunk of you is dying and getting replaced by another you.

    Are you afraid of that death? Is the new tissue not your own? Do you go to sleep fearing the death that will happen as another you takes over your brain in the morning?
    Yes but the form is retained throughout and thus the processes that it creates remains intact.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caw the rooks View Post
    Yes but the form is retained throughout and thus the processes that it creates remains intact.
    So if the process is distrupted and restarted later, its a new person? Don't we revive people who's process has being in some way disrupted in ICU's all the time? Are they brand new once you do that?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caw the rooks View Post
    Teleportation in the typical sense, of copying the entire atomic structure of the body and reconstructing it elsewhere after disintegrating the original, wouldn't work, because it destroys consciousness; that is, the consciousness that's streaming through your brain right now, which is what you refer to as "I". The discontinuation of that will kill you off. The new, identical body will be an exact replica, but won't be you, as the consciousness - the first-person perspective - that makes up who you are has been discontinued. The new body will of course be conscious, and the experience will be almost exactly as it was when you were alive (as it is working off the same brain and body physiology, memories and thought patterns), but the prior experience or stream of consciousness (which is you) has been erased.
    Yes, teleportation depends on the religious principle of dualism, where we have a body and a soul. So teleportation kills the body but saves the soul. Does this not sound familiar? Is this not preached in chuches, mosques and synagogues, as life after death?

    But today, teleportation is right up to the minute, and so is part of the Woo Hoo of the New Age.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Yes, teleportation depends on the religious principle of dualism, where we have a body and a soul. So teleportation kills the body but saves the soul. Does this not sound familiar? Is this not preached in chuches, mosques and synagogues, as life after death?

    But today, teleportation is right up to the minute, and so is part of the Woo Hoo of the New Age.
    Except that in the religious principle of dualism you are required to blindly believe that it's already there - that a metaphysical medium of a soul carrying all the information of who you are and the makings of your consciousness already exists. In contrast, teleportation in any form relies on the prospect that we would be able to create that medium - not that the universe stores who you are in some metaphysical object but that we'd be able to store it in a physically known object, whether that medium is straightforward entangled quantum waves (as the article suggested) or digital information (as many others have suggested).

    The similarity is skin deep - the bones of the analogy are made of straw

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    Except that in the religious principle of dualism you are required to blindly believe that it's already there - that a metaphysical medium of a soul carrying all the information of who you are and the makings of your consciousness already exists. In contrast, teleportation in any form relies on the prospect that we would be able to create that medium - not that the universe stores who you are in some metaphysical object but that we'd be able to store it in a physically known object, whether that medium is straightforward entangled quantum waves (as the article suggested) or digital information (as many others have suggested).

    The similarity is skin deep - the bones of the analogy are made of straw
    I can't help feeling teleportation along with telepathy, the assumption of the Prophet Mohammed into Heaven on a winged horse, the transfiguration of Jesus and his assumption into Heaven, and the assumption of Mary, the Mother of Jesus, into heaven, and life after death, is a religious belief.

    Of course you rationalise teleportation beautifully. But the other religious beliefs, mentioned above, are also beautifully rationalised.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    But the other religious beliefs, mentioned above, are also beautifully rationalised.
    Someone fantasized of flying, and thought of angels, others fantasized of flying, and they were the Right Brothers. The desire to defend your mind from the trap of religion is more then understandable, even admirable. But to defend yourself from anything that shares anything with religion will stand in your way of thinking of all that is beyond our arm's reach, because religion and innovation do share a common source - not that of blind belief but that of human imagination. Faith is what comes afterwards.

    And for faith, examine yourself: To defend your belief, you have invented an ammo to shoot all which contradicts it - after all if it's all nothing but rationalization, there's no need to examine the rational that your belief might be wrong, and thus no need to question your belief. That is not the mental working of understanding or even skepticism, that is the mental working of faith.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarlaxle View Post
    Someone fantasized of flying, and thought of angels, others fantasized of flying, and they were the Right Brothers. The desire to defend your mind from the trap of religion is more then understandable, even admirable. But to defend yourself from anything that shares anything with religion will stand in your way of thinking of all that is beyond our arm's reach, because religion and innovation do share a common source - not that of blind belief but that of human imagination. Faith is what comes afterwards.

    And for faith, examine yourself: To defend your belief, you have invented an ammo to shoot all which contradicts it - after all if it's all nothing but rationalization, there's no need to examine the rational that your belief might be wrong, and thus no need to question your belief. That is not the mental working of understanding or even skepticism, that is the mental working of faith.
    The reason I write is that the meaning of my post is your response.

    I don't see my post as free standing. In fact my assertions are balanced by your critique.

    I depend on your critique to be free to make my assertions.

    And indeed how could you possibly make your critique without my assertions?

  9. #29
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    I actually think bilocation to be a more immediate goal than teleportation. We can already acheive a certain amount of bilocation already. When you skype somewhere and use a digital camera for eyes, its a rudimentary form of bilocation. The ultimate form of it would be to have physical control of a remote body and experience all that body in the remote location experiences. So the question really is, can we focus our consciousness in a remote location and control a locally present body with it? This I think is a more immediately acheivable technological goal.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chthonic View Post
    I actually think bilocation to be a more immediate goal than teleportation. We can already acheive a certain amount of bilocation already. When you skype somewhere and use a digital camera for eyes, its a rudimentary form of bilocation. The ultimate form of it would be to have physical control of a remote body and experience all that body in the remote location experiences. So the question really is, can we focus our consciousness in a remote location and control a locally present body with it? This I think is a more immediately acheivable technological goal.
    The electronic media have abolished time and space. Before electronic media it took three months for a letter to reach me, now you speak to me in real time.

    And with time and space abolished, we are now disembodied.

    However our minds have not caught up with this reality, and we still think and act as though we are embodied.

    So we are absurd.

    We are so absurd, we talk about teleporting bodies that no longer exist.

    How absurd can we be?

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