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  1. #11
    Senior Member Alea_iacta_est's Avatar
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    Dissociative Identity Disorder is the formation of several different personas that can take over your body and live your (the dom personality's life) life and in some cases ruin it for fun. The personalities can sort of hide themselves from being seen and interpreted by the dominant personality, but it isn't a complete schism like Schizophrenia.

    Schizophrenia is what happens when parts of the brain can't communicate with each other effectively, and when the cut off side does manage to communicate, it's thoughts (for it is autonomous) are perceived as voices, pictures and even hallucinations by the dominant brain. SCARY PART: The crazy shit you see is still the product of your own personality, it's just that part of your personality is walled off and doing its separate thing and going completely insane due to lack of input.

    the_more_you_know.jpeg

  2. #12
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    It's just like working in an office complex!
    open plan office! yuck.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    Should we use fire to cook our food? Should we develop a written language? Should we harness the power of electricity? Should we travel to moon? Should we connect the world with internet? Should we enhance our bodies with technology?

    The right answer is of course 'Yes, we should'. Each of these inventions have radically changed our culture, our brains and our future. I can't wait to have my mind uploaded into a computer. I'm just hoping my mind will still be as bright as it is now. There will such an ethic struggles with such technologies, but it has always been so. In thousand years it will be as common as subjugation of entire animal species (just think for a moment what we have done to cows or wolves/dogs and if we could tolerate aliens who would do the same thing to us) is in modern times.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

  4. #14
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    If you assume the soul doesn't exist then it's just a case of thoroughly studying and reverse engineering the human brain by building a computer with memory space and computational power which equals that of the human brain. If all goes well you should then have a device which at least passes the Turing test.

  5. #15
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    First, get rid of the Omega Point part. Omega point is bullshit. Frank Tipler is completely psychotic. Listen to his Singularity 1 on 1 interview. He basically thinks it proves Christianity LOL.

    Next, yes, all of this is possible and inevitable. Read The Singularity Is Near by Kurzweil. It is pretty much impossible to argue against the proof he lays out. It was probably the most coherent thing I've ever read, actually. Which is nice, because in lesser hands this stuff seems like pure scifi. But it's not.

    IMO mind and machine are already merging and it's fine. I see my smartphone as a body part, even a brain part. I constantly do google and wikipedia searches throughout the day, and use it for many other things. In that way yes it is a part of me. And if it is included as part of me, it has increased my intelligence unbelievably. Thinking about this kind of makes me realize that in a way we are already superintelligent - but will become moreso. Sure, our raw IQs have only increased so much due to the flynn effect, but with our devices our capabilities and speed are beyond what they ever were.

    As we continue to merge with machine, we will become immortal, super intelligent, and super happy. Nanotechnology will mostly insure this, but I have come to believe that the main player here is virtual reality. As we will continue to see, the line between reality and virtual reality will blur and then disappear. Yes, we will be able to exist fully in VR, including our minds, which will have been uploaded. Death will be gone (but will have been cured before that by biotech and nanotech) and so will any disease. Suffering itself will be an option.

    I actually see this as a possible reason for the Fermi paradox. Any civilization much beyond ours would be a ghostly one indeed... Physical reality isn't so important when you can just simulate everything.

    Timeframe for all of this: biotech revolution in the 2020s, will cure most or all diseases, eliminate aging, and enhance our inherent genetic nature through designer babies who are by nature smarter, happier, stronger, more attractive, and less prone to any negative emotion. Evolution will cease to be blind and will be guided by our rational minds. Food production also will have been made VASTLY more efficient - livestock farming will be gone by the end of the 20s and meat will be grown in vitro. The 2030s will see the full blooming of the nanotech revolution, as computers more powerful than today's smartphones will be small enough to fit in a blood cell. We will effectively become superheroes at that point, able to do things like hold our breath underwater for hours and go into VR worlds straight through the central nervous system with use of nanobots. Entire structures will be self assembling. The possibilities are endless.

    By 2045 the AI revolution should have already also happened and a computer that would cost 1000 dollars today will have a computing capacity 1 billion times greater than all of the human intelligence in history combined. By that time there will be no line between man and machine, and there will be no line between reality and virtual reality. The paradigm of the universe will have changed. We will be immortal and our imaginations will be the limit. Assuming we don't blow ourselves up before we get there. Admittedly this is a possibility. I think it is pretty damn important for the human race to get its act together in the next decade or two, and I think that may be possible. Poverty is decreasing fast, and communication is global and instant. The ideas of freedom and knowledge are able to spread more than ever before.

  6. #16
    A Gentle Whisper ~MS*ANGEL~'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zago View Post
    First, get rid of the Omega Point part. Omega point is bullshit. Frank Tipler is completely psychotic. Listen to his Singularity 1 on 1 interview. He basically thinks it proves Christianity LOL.

    Next, yes, all of this is possible and inevitable. Read The Singularity Is Near by Kurzweil. It is pretty much impossible to argue against the proof he lays out. It was probably the most coherent thing I've ever read, actually. Which is nice, because in lesser hands this stuff seems like pure scifi. But it's not.

    IMO mind and machine are already merging and it's fine. I see my smartphone as a body part, even a brain part. I constantly do google and wikipedia searches throughout the day, and use it for many other things. In that way yes it is a part of me. And if it is included as part of me, it has increased my intelligence unbelievably. Thinking about this kind of makes me realize that in a way we are already superintelligent - but will become moreso. Sure, our raw IQs have only increased so much due to the flynn effect, but with our devices our capabilities and speed are beyond what they ever were.

    As we continue to merge with machine, we will become immortal, super intelligent, and super happy. Nanotechnology will mostly insure this, but I have come to believe that the main player here is virtual reality. As we will continue to see, the line between reality and virtual reality will blur and then disappear. Yes, we will be able to exist fully in VR, including our minds, which will have been uploaded. Death will be gone (but will have been cured before that by biotech and nanotech) and so will any disease. Suffering itself will be an option.

    I actually see this as a possible reason for the Fermi paradox. Any civilization much beyond ours would be a ghostly one indeed... Physical reality isn't so important when you can just simulate everything.

    Timeframe for all of this: biotech revolution in the 2020s, will cure most or all diseases, eliminate aging, and enhance our inherent genetic nature through designer babies who are by nature smarter, happier, stronger, more attractive, and less prone to any negative emotion. Evolution will cease to be blind and will be guided by our rational minds. Food production also will have been made VASTLY more efficient - livestock farming will be gone by the end of the 20s and meat will be grown in vitro. The 2030s will see the full blooming of the nanotech revolution, as computers more powerful than today's smartphones will be small enough to fit in a blood cell. We will effectively become superheroes at that point, able to do things like hold our breath underwater for hours and go into VR worlds straight through the central nervous system with use of nanobots. Entire structures will be self assembling. The possibilities are endless.

    By 2045 the AI revolution should have already also happened and a computer that would cost 1000 dollars today will have a computing capacity 1 billion times greater than all of the human intelligence in history combined. By that time there will be no line between man and machine, and there will be no line between reality and virtual reality. The paradigm of the universe will have changed. We will be immortal and our imaginations will be the limit. Assuming we don't blow ourselves up before we get there. Admittedly this is a possibility. I think it is pretty damn important for the human race to get its act together in the next decade or two, and I think that may be possible. Poverty is decreasing fast, and communication is global and instant. The ideas of freedom and knowledge are able to spread more than ever before.
    Three things I would like to mention:

    1) The mind is truly complex. Do you think we would ever be able to completely figure out how it works in the first place?

    2) We are NOT always rational beings; yet I don't believe that the part of us which makes us irrational makes us any weaker or less efficient. Sometimes our emotions can drive us to perform incredible feats.

    3) Have you seen the movie GATTACA? What if there are still people like Vincent (the main character) who are conceived naturally, who appear to be at a disadvantage compared to those who were genetically "designed", and who yet manage to beat the odds? If the human race has survived for so long WITHOUT the use of genetic technology, there's a pretty damn good reason for it.

    EDIT: And one more thing - each person in the world is gifted with at least one talent, which makes that person unique and beautiful in his/her own right. (Whether that talent is realized or not is another question, but anyway...) Would you eradicate this as well, by merging mind with machine?
    Only she who attempts the absurd can achieve the impossible... and then some.

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  7. #17
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AngelLight2012 View Post
    Three things I would like to mention:

    1) The mind is truly complex. Do you think we would ever be able to completely figure out how it works in the first place?
    Absolutely. We understand more and more about it every day. That will continue. There will never be any point at which we just decide we have learned all we can possibly learn and still don't understand it.

    Kurzweil predicts 2029 for the full reverse engineering of the brain. That's 15 years from now. 15 years is a lot of technological growth these days. Whatever we know today will seem pathetic by then. Guaranteed.

    2) We are NOT always rational beings; yet I don't believe that the part of us which makes us irrational makes us any weaker or less efficient. Sometimes our emotions can drive us to perform incredible feats.
    Emotions can be systematized rationally, they all had an evolutionary function at some point. They may or may not guide us to rational behavior, though. I think irrationality is equivalent to evil, actually. Emotions are fine, but not irrationality. Irrationality is the force that causes humans to believe strange things that aren't true, and causes them to burn people at the stake and fly planes into buildings. Rationality has been our saving grace as a civilization.

    3) Have you seen the movie GATTACA? What if there are still people like Vincent (the main character) who are conceived naturally, who appear to be at a disadvantage compared to those who were genetically "designed", and who yet manage to beat the odds? If the human race has survived for so long WITHOUT the use of genetic technology, there's a pretty damn good reason for it.
    I have seen GATTACA and all I have to say is, it is just a movie. I don't think the world it creates is realistic in the sense that genetics would be that advanced, yet there would be no way to help Vincent with his own ailments. For instance, we recently have discovered treatment that basically cures cystic fibrosis. What once, naturally gave people a huge disadvantage, now is no obstacle at all. This isn't a matter of just creating superior designer babies and leaving natural-borns high and dry. Both classes benefit.

    Furthermore, we already live in a world of discrimination caused by nature. The world of GATTACA, were it to exist, would be no different than the world as it already is. In real nature as it is today, some people are born much stronger and smarter than others, and those people have better opportunities.

    In short, genetic therapies are here to solve REAL problems that REAL people have. Silly Hollywood movies are designed to scare and entertain you, and shouldn't be looked to for actual information or critical thinking. Genetics will make the blind see, the crippled walk.... and the progeria sufferers not suffer from progeria. Lol. Last one doesn't have much of a ring to it. But it's true. And I see that as 100% good.

    EDIT: And one more thing - each person in the world is gifted with at least one talent, which makes that person unique and beautiful in his/her own right. (Whether that talent is realized or not is another question, but anyway...) Would you eradicate this as well, by merging mind with machine?
    Our uniqueness will not be eradicated by merging mind with machine. We will probably become more unique. Kind of in the same sense that a human is more unique than a bacteria.

    Why would our uniqueness be eradicated? Who ever said anything about that? I think you have extrapolated this idea to the point where you think everyone will simply opt to be whatever everyone considers "perfect" and we will all be the same like mass produced Barbie dolls or something (another Hollywood idea). We are unique in a deeper sense than you seem to think, and that won't be destroyed as long as we have separate and unique pasts and perspectives.

    Then again, I think uniqueness is a bit egocentric and not truly the point. As science progresses, we seem to find that we are less and less special. No longer are we the center of the universe. No longer are we above the animal kingdom - rather, we are directly related to an ape ancestor. Etc. These findings don't detract from my appreciation of nature, though. Humans are very similar to each other in the grand scheme of things. You aren't as unique as you think. The fact that A likes playing the flute and B likes quantum physics is fairly superficial, and not of any particular value. If A and B both decide they like and excel at flute and quantum physics, there is no loss, because the value is in the flute and the quantum physics, not in the mere fact that 2 people are different.

  8. #18
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    I wouldn't be surprised if humanity just slips into a dream. Imagination is always at the forefront of anything we do anyhow, even the most literal minded imprint upon what they receive in their own way.

    Everyone has delusion in some form, in order to function. Next step would be becoming our delusions.
    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  9. #19
    Senior Member zago's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised if humanity just slips into a dream. Imagination is always at the forefront of anything we do anyhow, even the most literal minded imprint upon what they receive in their own way.

    Everyone has delusion in some form, in order to function. Next step would be becoming our delusions.
    This critique of Brave New World will tell you pretty much everything you need to know re that topic.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Habba's Avatar
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    In an episode of Stagate SG-1 there was a civilization so advanced that they had merged their minds with a virtual realities and never used their physical bodies. Bodies were resting in someform of lifepods. Now image if we could use nanobots (or whatever machines) to work us our body doubles. We manifest ourselves anywhere in the world. Or maybe even space.

    1) The mind is truly complex. Do you think we would ever be able to completely figure out how it works in the first place?
    They flew to moon with a computer as powerful as a calculator 45 years ago. We have already primitive mind reading devices (researchers have been able to identify image seen by test subject through brain scans) and even mind controlling. We have discovered much of human DNA and genetic disesases. "Ever" is a very long time. Do you think cave people ever would have believed that today we are able to watch cat videos wherever, whenever we want?

    2) We are NOT always rational beings; yet I don't believe that the part of us which makes us irrational makes us any weaker or less efficient. Sometimes our emotions can drive us to perform incredible feats.
    Emotions are nothing more than physiological reactions in our brains and system. What is interesting is figuring out how much of our personalities lie outside the brains.

    3) Have you seen the movie GATTACA? What if there are still people like Vincent (the main character) who are conceived naturally, who appear to be at a disadvantage compared to those who were genetically "designed", and who yet manage to beat the odds? If the human race has survived for so long WITHOUT the use of genetic technology, there's a pretty damn good reason for it.
    "What if" is always an importan question to ask. No matter how fictious it sounds, it's always a good question. Gentetics play a big role in how we turn out, but there are other environmental factors as well. But twin-studies show a lot of interesting facts about genetics.
    "The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine."
    -Nikola Tesla

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