The universe might be finite in spatial extend but unbounded, an overall topology of a closed surface, spherical or a donut (torus) in shape. Which topology is correct depends on the average curvature of space. Positive curvature is a sphere, flat curvature is a torus, and negative curvature is a saddle with infinite possible topologies. A spatially infinite universe cannot be a self-contained system, but rather is part of a larger system taking in information from boundaries infinitely far away, the space outside being explicable by what comes in from the world beyond the boundary.
The different possibilities as to the shape of the cosmos:
1. Open and Infinite (Saddle - Negative curvature)
2. Finite and Closed (Sphere - Positive curvature)
3. Digital and Flat (Torus - No curvature)
4. Multi-directional and Eternal (Toroid - Revolving Curvature)
Ventrilo conversation on this subject that I got permission to post:
RaptorWizard: case closed, anyway, i was reading about different geometries for our cosmos yesterday
RaptorWizard: do we have a finite or infinite, closed or open, negatively curved saddle, positively curved sphere, or flat torus
RaptorWizard: shapes for the universe
RaptorWizard: the negative saddle to me looked the most interesting
RaptorWizard: it opens up many more variables and is open to other spaces outside this one
superunknown: i just remembered i never finished the video on turning spheres inside out
superunknown: do you think the universe is closed or open?
RaptorWizard: that whirling graphic is interesting
RaptorWizard: i want it to be open, and i have faith it may be, but the evidence amy later say its closed
RaptorWizard: i should make a thread on that actually; how is our universe shaped
superunknown: yes, you should
RaptorWizard: i guess one piece of evidence in favor of istj over istp for you is your focus on well, evidence - mingularity, istp goes by logic even if there could be counter-logical discoveries made
RaptorWizard: he doesnt want the universe to have a metaphorical shape for instance, because its too inconsistent
RaptorWizard: from a rational standpoint
RaptorWizard: anyway, just my opinion, ill get to that thread
superunknown: yeah, i really like the concept of irrational functions
superunknown: rational functions are tethered
superunknown: though i may be that irl, my unconscious self
RaptorWizard: Shape of the Cosmos - is that a good title, or is there an improvement
RaptorWizard: and poll options: negative, positive, flat
RaptorWizard: negative is infinite, positive is closed, and flat - is that the torus?
superunknown: i'm not sure about the flat/torus one
RaptorWizard: how would a flat universe be shaped
superunknown: reading now
superunknown: i wasn't doubting you, i was saying i personally don't know, fyi
RaptorWizard: i dont know either, why i asked - more information is needed
superunknown: ah. yeah, reading now
RaptorWizard: ^ supposed evidence for the saddle
superunknown: a flat universe means theroretical parallel can be drawn through any point in space, space doesn't "curve" like einstein predicts
superunknown: I don't know if I buy literal curvature of space
superunknown: i think the universe is flat and digital
RaptorWizard: perhaps so, could negative curvature be a metaphor (and if it is, what kind of metaphor)
superunknown: i think the saddle shaped universe is manifest in the torus
superunknown: the middle piece is like a chunk taken out of the inner wall of a torus
RaptorWizard: hmm, good point, the torus kind of mixes the flat/digital with the saddle
RaptorWizard: thx, saved the image
superunknown: i know for a while i liked the concept of an eternal, closed universe
superunknown: in constant flux
superunknown: rehashing itself over and over
RaptorWizard: i think thats how nietzsche saw it
superunknown: makes sense, given his conclusions
RaptorWizard: eternal recurrence in never ending cycles
superunknown: i think that's how eastern religions see it also
superunknown: perpetual rebirth
RaptorWizard: is there a way to mix the rebirth, the saddle, and the flat with the torus (or something else)?
superunknown: one sec, i saw a cool pic
RaptorWizard: ^ that may be the answer
superunknown: that's what i thought, for a while
superunknown: condensing to maximum density, exploding, condensing, etc
RaptorWizard: it whirls around in cycles, it can move forever, it has a closed system that can be calculated, it has the saddle source for the bang
superunknown: or that idea of a new universe being born every time a black hole is created
superunknown: it makes a bit of intuitive sense, for a system to work that way
RaptorWizard: whats this design called
superunknown: doughnut theory of the universe
RaptorWizard: i think ill argue for that one, but changes can be made along the way if new things emerge
superunknown: i will argue for a similar concept, only flat
RaptorWizard: how would flat donut work
superunknown: i really dislike the concept of geometry being the purest form of reality
RaptorWizard: literal donut?
superunknown: yeah, something like that
superunknown: it'd be like a radial burst from a centralized location
RaptorWizard: what makes geometry incomplete (it could be, why so)
RaptorWizard: the nexus of size
superunknown: yeah. but what exists between sizes?
superunknown: i remember thinking....
superunknown: ya, brb
RaptorWizard: im posting this conversation into the thread if thats okay
superunknown: yeah, that's cool
superunknown: i was thinking about the wave/particle problem in quantum mechanics
superunknown: i can't remember the thought i had about it, but it was cool...
'TheStarchDefenders' has joined the chat.
RaptorWizard: how does contingency (like in QM) connect with the shape of the cosmos?
superunknown: i have a feeling we simple aren't equipped to probe that level of existence accurately yet
superunknown: hello starch
RaptorWizard: true, QM may be seemingly contingent just because we cant see the causes behind it
superunknown: that, or there is a duality to nature that is irreconcilable
superunknown: but that's been said a dozen times over in science
superunknown: i have faith we will figure it out
Mane: the answer is gloves
Mane: sort of
superunknown: metaphorical gloves?
Mane: it's like the thing they have in labs where the gloves are within the walls of a glass box
Mane: to handle materials you can't touch
superunknown: ah, yeah, i remember this
Mane: we need to use the space of our universe like gloves
superunknown: i know the theory of quantum uncertainty has been disproven with a thought experiment
Mane: what thought experiment?
superunknown: something involving two people with boxes that will randomly generate a red or blue cube inside?
superunknown: it's been a while since i read it...
Mane: if we had that - we could "feel" what is outside of our universe, we could possibly even grab something which isn't part of our membrane and manipulate it, possibly even build a probe of sort
RaptorWizard: mane, i want permission to post this entire discussion in a thread, is that okay?
superunknown: maybe the upcoming quantum age will give it to us
RaptorWizard: when do you foresee the QM age coming
Mane: didn't the QM age start when the universe emerged?
Mane: or you mean in terms of our capacity to manipulate?
Mane: i suppose the stone age started when we manipulated stone..
superunknown: yes, like the atomic age, iron age, etc
superunknown: i think around 2025 is when it's gonna be "mainstream" technology
superunknown: quantum watches, cell phones
Mane: i think we've already had quantum watches
Mane: maybe i am wrong on that one...
superunknown: it'd be interesting if we did, but i haven't heard of it
Mane: what is the watch that they placed on setalites to test the theory of relatively?
superunknown: i know of only one commercially available quantum computer, made by D-Wave
superunknown: atomic clock
Mane: oh right
superunknown: my watch syncs with an atomic clock in georgia daily
Mane: well you have variations of quantum computing that are disputable
Mane: like the google thingy
RaptorWizard: Shape of the Cosmos ~ Understanding the Architectures of our Universe - hows that for a full title
superunknown: i like it
Mane: my watch syncs with the mind of a hippy thinking what time it feels like
superunknown: i didn't hear about that, mane
Mane: their where articles over it all over awhile ago
Mane: wired, popsci... those sort of sites
Mane: i do remember D-wave claiming it is not a real quantum computer
Mane: but i wasn't sure if its nitpicking about not fitting for a specific theory of how quantum computation should work, or if it's actually in a sense of not having the properties of a quantum computer
Mane: i think the google thing used a more basic binary state system or something like that?
Mane: not sure
Mane: its being awhile ago
RaptorWizard: http://howardbloom.net/the-god-probl...-bagel-theory/ - Big Bagel Theory
superunknown: i'm not sure, but this year, NASA and Google both partnered with D-Wave to study what they're doing right with their computers
superunknown: Prior to announcing this partnership, NASA, Google, and Universities Space Research Association put a D-Wave computer through a series of benchmark and acceptance tests which it passed. Independent researchers found that D-Wave's computers can solve s
superunknown: solve some problems as much as 3,600 times faster than particular software packages running on digital computers.
superunknown: there's more though, still reading
Mane: i think initially it's going to be like an added hardware piece you shove in server clusters
superunknown: yeah, for weird problems
Mane: not really weird problems
superunknown: i guess i meant nuanced
Mane: i heard that search sorting algorithms can work better in quantum algorithms.
Mane: that's not that weird is it? its one of the most common problems we have to solve
RaptorWizard: The different possibilities as to the shape of the cosmos:
RaptorWizard: 1. Open and Infinite (Saddle - Negative curvature)
superunknown: no, not weird
RaptorWizard: 2. Finite and Closed (Sphere - Positive curvature)
RaptorWizard: 3. Digital and Flat (Torus - No curvature)
RaptorWizard: Multi-directional and Eternal (Toroid - Revolving Curvature)
RaptorWizard: ^ 4
RaptorWizard: are those good poll options
superunknown: yes, i think so
RaptorWizard: cool, ill post the thread now
Mane: wait wasn't it the other way around
Mane: problems with small data sets but large processing run times
Mane: so not search algorithms...
Mane: ok i am clearly not remembering this right