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View Poll Results: What is the shape of the cosmos?

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  • 1. Open and Infinite (Saddle - Negative curvature)

    3 42.86%
  • 2. Finite and Closed (Sphere - Positive curvature)

    0 0%
  • 3. Digital and Flat (Torus - No curvature)

    2 28.57%
  • 4. Multi-directional and Eternal (Toroid - Revolving Curvature)

    2 28.57%
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  1. #21
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Its impossible to know what shape the universe is(and it depends on definition of many things). But if there is one spot of origin(big bang) and the boundaries of the universe is defined by where the light has traveled the furthest away, then the universe is the same shape as the big bang was. However imo its stupid to talk of the shape by its boundaries, because there is a lot of mass inside the universe and those are in the shape aswell, then the shape of the universe is the shape of all its material contents(including this keyboard im typing with and black holes etc.). But again the mass in the universe isnt shaped as we perceive it(or how we are even able to comprehend it), but is energy in quantum state(which just manifests itself in macro scale in particular ways, but which isnt the actual reality) which interacts with other energy by basic forces of nature and its impossible to give shape to this energy in a quantum state.

    You should start by thinking about questions that can be answered at least with some probability, then when you find probable answers to those questions, then you can start to hypothesize answers to bigger questions(but this question is just impossible to answer).

    edit. also we dont even know if we exist in the edges of the universe(holographic universe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DIl3Hfh9tY ) or inside of it as we have theorized for centuries.
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  2. #22
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Its impossible to know what shape the universe is
    The fact is we have taken very fine measurements of the background radiation of the big bang with orbiting telescopes, and it turns out the the universe is flat.

  3. #23
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The fact is we have taken very fine measurements of the background radiation of the big bang with orbiting telescopes, and it turns out the the universe is flat.
    Lol. Even tho the picture of the background radiation on your computer screen is flat, it doesent mean that the universe is flat..
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    Lol. Even tho the picture of the background radiation on your computer screen is flat, it doesent mean that the universe is flat..
    You plainly don't understand the astrophysics of the background radiation and the shape of the universe.

    You have set up a straw man of surprising simplicity and expect us to be taken in by it.

  5. #25
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    You plainly don't understand the astrophysics of the background radiation and the shape of the universe.

    You have set up a straw man of surprising simplicity and expect us to be taken in by it.
    You just proved that i understand the current theories about cosmic background radiation better than you do, by saying that it would suggest that the universe is flat. The whole idea of universe being flat is completely ludicrous, because we obviously do have 3 spacial dimensions(unless ofc we live in a holographic universe) + time and something that is flat only has two spacial dimensions + time.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    The distinction between the "universe" and the "observable universe" must be made, when discussing this.

    If it is the "observable universe" then what Victor (Mole) is saying is correct. Relatively speaking, as one cannot determine the curvature of the "observable universe", to make any assumptions about it. As we haven't "walked" that far yet, to know that it curves.

  7. #27
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    Hey @Mole, don't walk off the edge of space, or else you will be gone for all time!

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    You just proved that i understand the current theories about cosmic background radiation better than you do, by saying that it would suggest that the universe is flat. The whole idea of universe being flat is completely ludicrous, because we obviously do have 3 spacial dimensions(unless ofc we live in a holographic universe) + time and something that is flat only has two spacial dimensions + time.
    This is startlingly silly. Who am I dealing with here? Am I dealing with someone with a sense of humour who is pulling my leg, or am I dealing with someone who actually thinks a flat universe has only two dimensions and time?

    Frankly, I think it is the later. This can be remedied by learning what a flat and curved universe is rather than what your erroneously think it is.

    Also you should read the latest scientific discovery about the background radiation and the shape of the universe. And the news is the universe is flat.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    The distinction between the "universe" and the "observable universe" must be made, when discussing this.

    If it is the "observable universe" then what Victor (Mole) is saying is correct. Relatively speaking, as one cannot determine the curvature of the "observable universe", to make any assumptions about it. As we haven't "walked" that far yet, to know that it curves.
    We have actually, just the other day, 'walked' all the way back to the big bang, and our measurements show conclusively the universe is flat.

  10. #30
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Also you should read the latest scientific discovery about the background radiation and the shape of the universe. And the news is the universe is flat.
    Actually the latest news is that old measurements werent precise enough, so it just seemed flat and new more precise measurements suggest that it has saddle shaped curvature(i got a pretty good theories on why this is, that kinda fits on both non holographic universe and holographic universe as its about the reasons where the theory on holographic universe comes from, but i cant be arsed to explain).

    As i already said; "Its impossible to know what shape the universe is(and it depends on definition of many things)".
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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