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  1. #81
    Senior Member bedeviled1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    @KDude

    We're all connected to something great just by being. Why anyone would want to see that destroyed is beyond me.
    It boggles my mind that Apocalyptic predictions and network marketing are still effective.

    But to me black and white, true or false, good or bad seems to be the best while others have more of a gray area to operate in. To say take some instruction here and some advice there while both sources are in direct opposition, or contradiction seems to be a passive way to live. Things that are true are concrete. Perhaps I am dogmatic but I THINK that I have more than a good degree of self doubt.
    "May you live all the days of your life"

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviled1 View Post
    It boggles my mind that Apocalyptic predictions and network marketing are still effective.

    But to me black and white, true or false, good or bad seems to be the best while others have more of a gray area to operate in. To say take some instruction here and some advice there while both sources are in direct opposition, or contradiction seems to be a passive way to live. Things that are true are concrete. Perhaps I am dogmatic but I THINK that I have more than a good degree of self doubt.
    To me, the synthesis of opinions based on multiple sources is the main indication of a free and independent mind.

    I consider someone who parrots a single source or believes a particular source without question as either being brainwashed or mindless...or at the least, unable to think for himself.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
    Robot Fusion
    "As our island of knowledge grows, so does the shore of our ignorance." John Wheeler
    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
    "[P]etabytes of [] data is not the same thing as understanding emergent mechanisms and structures." Jim Crutchfield

  3. #83
    Senior Member bedeviled1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    To me, the synthesis of opinions based on multiple sources is the main indication of a free and independent mind.

    I consider someone who parrots a single source or believes a particular source without question as either being brainwashed or mindless...or at the least, unable to think for himself.
    There iis safety in a multitude of counsellors alright. But I'm not so sure that would be my interpretation of an independant mind. Whether it is many sources or few it would still not be original or independant thought. It would make one feel more secure I suppose and maybe the best way to live but there is still fact and truth. Whether you and I believe it or not. To me science is truly amazing but is only a studyof something that already exists or has and having a hard time trying to figure out where it came from. Maybe it will help mankinds future, maybe not. Where's the originality ? We are so preoccupied with the past and afraid of the future that the present is slipping away.
    "May you live all the days of your life"

  4. #84
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Let me say this, THERE IS NO ANSWERS FOR WHEN THE WORLD WILL END. God can't/won't tell us and science can't/won't tell us.

  5. #85
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviled1 View Post
    There iis safety in a multitude of counsellors alright. But I'm not so sure that would be my interpretation of an independant mind. Whether it is many sources or few it would still not be original or independant thought. It would make one feel more secure I suppose and maybe the best way to live but there is still fact and truth. Whether you and I believe it or not. To me science is truly amazing but is only a studyof something that already exists or has and having a hard time trying to figure out where it came from. Maybe it will help mankinds future, maybe not. Where's the originality ? We are so preoccupied with the past and afraid of the future that the present is slipping away.
    A synthesis based on multiple sources does not require accepting any of them. But after being informed, one may choose to reject all of them.

    My main objection was to the blind acceptance of a single source on all matters. I see no originality there.

    Using multiple sources is necessary for independent thought but not sufficient.

    Yes. There is fact and truth that exist independent of our beliefs, but the question of course is what that is, and the best we can do is a model. Science at least has methodology for choosing between models. That methodology has helped us cure disease, and even makes this conversation possible. It seems to work, and improves on itself. It even works well (perhaps even better) when people skeptical of this methodology participate in it.

  7. #87
    Senior Member ptgatsby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ygolo View Post
    Using multiple sources is necessary for independent thought but not sufficient.
    I'd argue that it is sufficient - in fact, using single sources is common.

    If you take the whole body of 'knowledge' that you have, including all the foundations for what you know (beyond just facts you can recall in the moment), only a very small portion of it has been critically examined and personally validated. This is especially true if you consider the rabbit hole effect of validating one concept you have by learning another concept which is equally suspect until you are able to validate it.

    Independent thought, to me, is adaptability; to changing one's accepted knowledge to the most likely accurate knowledge in and of that moment. Independent in the sense that it is personally subjective and evaluated; at least a decision on the knowledge being presented is being made.

  8. #88
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinkles View Post
    We're all connected to something great just by being. Why anyone would want to see that destroyed is beyond me.
    Gene sequencing shows us precisely how we are connected to every creature that has ever lived on Earth over the last four thousand million years.

    I don't think our minds or our hearts have quite caught up with this yet.

  9. #89
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I'm with ptgatsby on the decision making, but I'm not going to bother with telling anyone else how to think. They can believe the world is ending tomorrow with an attack of flying monkey nazis dropping out of a hole in space, for all I care.. All I ask is they shut the fuck up. Leave your stupid beliefs to yourself. It clogs up the airwaves too much, for my taste.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    Let me say this, THERE IS NO ANSWERS FOR WHEN THE WORLD WILL END. God can't/won't tell us and science can't/won't tell us.
    We know the Sun will turn into a red giant in another 4 billion years and swallow the Earth. And we know the universe will keep expanding at an accelerating rate until even the black holes will evaporate and the universe will reach an unchanging state of low entropie and time will come to an end.

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