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  1. #41
    Senior Member bedeviled1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    Since the Enlighenment in the West in the 17th and 18th centuries we have valued evidence and reason more than astrology, mbti, the bible, religious leaders, and counsellors.

    And as the work of scientists is based on evidence and reason, we value the advice of scientists more than the advice of the superstitious.
    Yes I see but does all the scientific data prove for a fact that all this is definately beyond superstition or do you also have to have some faith in the system?
    "May you live all the days of your life"

  2. #42
    WALMART
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    No they can't.

    Science can only guess at what will happen tomorrow as they have no control over it and no direct knowledge of the future.

    Half of me wishes to be a non-reductionist. The other half bitch slaps me back to reality.


    FTR: NASA.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by jontherobot View Post
    Half of me wishes to be a non-reductionist. The other half bitch slaps me back to reality.


    FTR: NASA.
    Realism and reductionism are not the same thing.

  4. #44
    WALMART
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Realism and reductionism are not the same thing.

    Hence my division.

  5. #45
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedeviled1 View Post
    Maybe I shouldn't have brought religion into it. Maybe religion doesn't have much to do with the Bibles authority. What do you think?
    What proven authority does the Bible have? i can't see that it has any, unless someone believes it with a clean conscience to be true. If you believe it is true, then you need to take pains to follow it, however.

    Science is a little different. It doesn't really matter whether you want to believe you're going to fly when you walk off a cliff, you will still fall, and the results will be observable by everyone who watches.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    What proven authority does the Bible have? i can't see that it has any, unless someone believes it with a clean conscience to be true. If you believe it is true, then you need to take pains to follow it, however.

    Science is a little different. It doesn't really matter whether you want to believe you're going to fly when you walk off a cliff, you will still fall, and the results will be observable by everyone who watches.
    Comparing religion and science is apples and oranges.

  7. #47
    Senior Member guesswho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Comparing religion and science is apples and oranges.
    Assuming that apples don't make sense and oranges do perhaps.

  8. #48
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Comparing religion and science is apples and oranges.
    Yes, I think that's pretty implicit in what people have been saying.

    Are they both even fruit?
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #49
    Senior Member UniqueMixture's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    That's not something science can determine.
    Nevertheless, by doing so you run the risk of basing your life on something meaningless.
    For all that we have done, as a civilization, as individuals, the universe is not stable, and nor is any single thing within it. Stars consume themselves, the universe itself rushes apart, and we ourselves are composed of matter in constant flux. Colonies of cells in temporary alliance, replicating and decaying and housed within, an incandescent cloud of electrical impulses. This is reality, this is self knowledge, and the perception of it will, of course, make you dizzy.

  10. #50
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    Relative certainty is more certain in local time scales.

    For the past few thousand years, on any given day one would be able to look around and see nothing pressing which would end the world on the very next day.

    This is because on any given day in the present you can make a localized prediction on things that is simply going from that day to the next day. This happens over and over again, kind of like a weather forecast.

    You might try to predict the weather 5000 years from now, but if on the 4999th year and 364th day it looks like it will be just any other day, then the more recent prediction will be the more accurate one.

    If that isn't true then you can't actually predict anything and the whole thing is moot.

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