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  1. #21
    Lallygag Moderator Geoff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athenian200 View Post
    Very good. You should probably listen to him instead of us, actually.

    Of course, now I want to ramble about processors... more just to hear myself talk than anything else.

    I've realized that I probably went over with the graphics card, since that's the lowest one I've tested Vista on... was afraid to use anything less based on what I had heard about Vista's ridiculous requirements.

    But I still recommend an E6850 or better as a processor. Unless your budget is severely cramped, there's no reason to go cheaper than that.

    E6850: $190 (3.0GHz, 2 cores, 6MB cache)
    Q6600: $200 (2.4GHz, 4 cores, 4MB cache)
    E4600: $120 (2.4GHz, 2 cores, 2MB cache) *cheapest option*

    Is it worth $80-$90 dollars to lose that much performance? That's very little money you get for the increased performance, especially considering how much higher-end processors go for, how much they use to charge for them in the past, how much you typically spend on other components in a system, and how important the processor is.

    You can choose whether to go for more cores, or more speed. No need to go as low as possible. I'd recommend the more expensive E6850 or Q6600, and wouldn't think it was such a bad idea to go a little higher if your budget isn't too tight.

    I really don't understand all these people asking you to go as cheap as possible on the processor.
    Easy! Because we can find a decent machine for say $300, perhaps $400. It's easier to find something quite a bit better for another 60 or 70 dollars. So.. let's spent 60-70 more for the processor, 60-70 more for a bigger hard drive, 60-70 more for a better graphics card... and so on. Oh look! It's now a $600 machine which wasn't needed in the first place.

  2. #22
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Easy! Because we can find a decent machine for say $300, perhaps $400. It's easier to find something quite a bit better for another 60 or 70 dollars. So.. let's spent 60-70 more for the processor, 60-70 more for a bigger hard drive, 60-70 more for a better graphics card... and so on. Oh look! It's now a $600 machine which wasn't needed in the first place.
    I'm sorry, I think you're putting way more value on that $200 than you really should. If you feel that strongly about it, I respect your opinion. But I honestly think you're biased too far towards efficiency and the short-term, not enough towards quality or keeping it in the future. There's absolutely no good reason you can't keep a computer working well for 4-5 years instead of 1-2 years, especially when you're talking about word processing and web browsing rather than gaming.

    Computer components fail, yes... but those are mostly hard drives and dvd-rom drives (and that takes about 3 years to happen). I once kept a computer for 10 years, only stopped using it because I got tired of the slowness. Had to replace the hard drive twice, and the power supply, floppy drive, and CD-Rom drive once. Everything else worked to the end. I also had another computer for 6 years, again the only thing I had to replace were those same components. Only reason I stopped using that one, again, was irritation with the slowness. I have still another computer that I've been using for 5 years, again, same components, everything else still working fine. It's still good enough to run most basic applications on at fair speed, and probably will be for another 2 years. It wouldn't have been so if I had taken the cheapest route like you suggest.

  3. #23
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    I'm a PC user who will not be swayed to Apple. Any advice for purchasing a new desktop?
    :17026: Why not.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  4. #24
    Senior Member millerm277's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    :17026: Why not.
    This debate can go on forever, but since the person here seems to be looking to not pay a ton, macs are pretty much automatically eliminated.

    Anyway, I personally think that you can build a machine that will suit your needs and be relatively upgradeable if necessary in the future for somewhere between $400-$600. Spending more than that is a waste of money from my point of view.
    I-95%, S-84%, T-89%, P-84%

  5. #25
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by millerm277 View Post
    This debate can go on forever, but since the person here seems to be looking to not pay a ton, macs are pretty much automatically eliminated.
    Ah. Good point.
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  6. #26
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brendan View Post
    :17026: Why not.
    Because I don't need a Mac to feel confident in my identity as a person, plus it's just cheaper to always go for the PC, plus it's more compatible to other users and less headache when you need to deal with the rest of the world who is PC. (If I was using it for graphic design/etc. it's a different story. But clearly I'm not.)
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
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  7. #27
    Guerilla Urbanist Brendan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Usehername View Post
    Because I don't need a Mac to feel confident in my identity as a person, plus it's just cheaper to always go for the PC, plus it's more compatible to other users and less headache when you need to deal with the rest of the world who is PC. (If I was using it for graphic design/etc. it's a different story. But clearly I'm not.)
    Your view of Macs is fairly outdated. Several Mac machines can run Windows Vista (better than the majority of purpose-built Vista PCs). And what's great about it is you can have both Vista and OS X Leopard on the same system. Also, all the iWork applications (Pages, Numbers, Keynote) not only just do more than their windows counterparts of Word, Excel and Powerpoint, but files started in the former can be opened without any problem in the latter. Also, a surprising amount of games are being made compatible with Macs, or have Mac compatible versions. Civ IV and its expansion packs, for instance. Macs will run faster over time, because they don't needlessly waste space with a System Restore feature. Macs are intuitive and incredibly easy to use.

    You won't get a virus with a Mac, you'll have amazing customer support, and I just think it's better to spend $1100 on a not-top-of-the-line but still very well-built machine in the form of a MacBook or iMac that will last you 6 or 7 years than some $400 piece from Dell that will run like a 70 year old asthmatic in a year.

    I guess what I'm getting at is; what have you got to lose? You can book a personal shopping appointment at any Apple Store and you'll have a Specialist all to yourself for half an hour, and they'll stay with you longer if time allows, to answer any questions you have. I mean, what's the harm in simply going to check one out?
    There is no such thing as separation from God.

  8. #28
    Just a statistic rhinosaur's Avatar
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    I'm with Geoff on this one. The way I see it, you could approach this one of two ways:

    1. Get a decent machine for $400-$500 and replace it in six years when it becomes outdated. As long as you have enough RAM you could do all the things you mentioned with a relatively slow processor and low-end graphics card. Yes, even with Vista. Office 2007 is not that bad.

    2. Get a top-of-the-line machine for $1000 and replace it in ten years when parts begin to fail (or begin replacing parts, which could extend the computer's life by a few years, but may not be worth the cost).

    I think I would go with option #1, unless I was looking to get something that will play the most badass of games.

  9. #29
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Sony Video Audio Integrated Operation

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  10. #30
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinosaur View Post
    1. Get a decent machine for $400-$500 and replace it in six years when it becomes outdated. As long as you have enough RAM you could do all the things you mentioned with a relatively slow processor and low-end graphics card. Yes, even with Vista. Office 2007 is not that bad.

    2. Get a top-of-the-line machine for $1000 and replace it in ten years when parts begin to fail (or begin replacing parts, which could extend the computer's life by a few years, but may not be worth the cost).

    I think I would go with option #1, unless I was looking to get something that will play the most badass of games.
    Why can you not understand moderation? Why does it either have to be "top-of -the-line", or "cheap as possible"? What's wrong with an extra $100-$200 to ensure smoother performance over those 6 years? Does it automatically have to jump to $1000 from $300-$400 by some weird rule that makes no sense? What on earth is the problem with spending $500-$600 for stability and speed over a longer period of time? Goodness, you people are insufferable.

    I can't understand why you don't see the value in spending just a little more on the CPU and motherboard, while not increasing the amount you spend on other components. It makes quite the difference over time.

    Ultimately, it comes down this... what works for one person with computers depends on their interests and needs. Mine work for me, yours work for you. It's obvious that we work in very different ways with different expectations. This user will have to figure out what works for them somehow, asking for advice probably wasn't the best idea on her part... because only she knows what she's looking for and what she'll be satisfied with, ultimately.

    Sorry I'm getting so frustrated, but this kind of thinking seems so limited and without nuance.

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