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  6. #276
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    The content in the following post from Ene's The Spiritual Laws of the Universe as Best as I can Currently Understand Them thread seemed similar to some of the theories on human origin I myself presented in this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Here is installment #2 of my Laws of the Spiritual Universe ramblings:

    I got to the part of where Beautiful One failed miserably in his attempt.

    At least one of the worlds the Self-Sufficient One gave Beautiful One was already seeded. He gave him a head start in placing life When Beautiful One failed in his attempt to create even one thriving world in a functional solar system, when he had virtually destroyed at least one world, possibly more, he had to turn it back over to the Self-Sufficient One, who the n re-created it or re-structured it, bringing beauty and function out of chaos.

    The Beautiful One and all of his kind, (I’ll call them Elohim) were mighty beings, close to the Self-Sufficient One but they lacked the power to create life. So, again the Beautiful One accused his maker of being unfair in not giving him that ability, but as with the law of spiritual things, what was made could not be un-made. What was brought into spiritual existence could not be destroyed, because it came from the Self-Sufficient One who could not destroy anything that had come from him. Therefore, the Beautiful One and his kind could not stop being what they were created to be and yet, because they had come from him, they had the power of choice and independent thought. Whatever the Self-Sufficient One made had been made with life or for the purpose of aiding in life.

    The Self-Sufficient One proceeded to create other beings and gave them one particular world. He may have made more beings for more worlds, but that remains for another discussion. At any rate, he made these creatures a little less powerful different than the Elohim.

    These new creatures did process a particular ability that the Elohim did not--procreation. In fact, the Self-Sufficient One made many species with this ability--procreation. But, to one species, the humans, he gave the power of imagination and creativity. He gave them the creative power of intent, so much so that some of the Elohim, including the Beautiful One, looked at these creatures and wished to be able to understand and imagine as they did, because imagination and creative abilities were intricately linked.

    The humans were a brand new kind of spiritual being, but there were many kinds of spiritual beings and they Elohim were used to their maker creating new beings. They had witnessed a variety of beings too numerous to mention here and now. These humans, they could create life by way of procreation and the world, teeming with life, was theirs for the shaping. Like Elohim, the Creator gave them the greatest gift of all, the gift that made them divine; he gave them the gift of choice. Again, Beautiful One accused his maker of being unfair. He accused him of treating the new species better of giving them a world already perfect and he was angry because he lacked the power to procreate on his own. So he approached his maker with these accusations. He genuinely viewed what the Self-Sufficient One had done as unfair, and he openly accused the Self-Sufficient One of being unfair. So, the Self-Sufficient One, knowing that this created being lacked the ability to do what he wanted to do and telling him so repeatedly, offered him a deal. Therefore the Self-Sufficient One offered him a deal…an agreement, a new experiment to prove that he was always fair. Beautiful One agreed to the deal, because if he were to be successful, he would get the world that had just been given to the new creatures, the humans and in the process, he would get them…as his slaves, bound to use their magnificent imaginations and creative powers to make the world into his image. He would get to be the god he had always wanted to be. [wow, he was the first megalomaniac!]

    ....I hope to continue this tale soon...

    Ene

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    The Spiritual Laws of the Universe as Best as I can Currently Understand Them
    (It didn't all fit)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Before I move to the next part, let me preface by saying that it is hard to speak of spiritual things in physical terms. Perhaps that is why the Greeks used Pandora's Box and why the Garden of Eden had the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, but maybe in our modern times, it is best understood as a portal, a link to another existence with different governing laws, laws that supersede the laws of the pyhsical universe as we understand them, a dimension that we cannot measure because we have no means sophisticated enough or on a high enough level, a knowledge which led the prophet, Issiah, to say that His [the Creator's] laws are higher than our laws, his understanding is above our understanding. We think we must measure and quantify everything but there are so many things, so many concepts, that are still above our ability to measure and quantify. Just because we have not yet been able to understand a thing, to measure a thing, to describe a thing, that does not make the "thing" untrue, but only speaks of the fact that we don't know everything there is to know about everything yet and while bound to this temporal reality, confinements, that is hard to do. Some get glimpses, but that is another post for another day. I'm starting to get side tracked again. [My mind is like a spider's web. Every thread is totally connected to every other thread, creating patterns that even I don't see until I walk into them and get the thing stuck all over me...only that's all in a mental state of being.]

    Okay back on track, I'm choosing to use an allegorical story to illustrate how we, as spiritual beings, came to be bound by the laws of a physical universe. [As a sci-fi fan, I might say, how we got trapped in the "matrix".] I will liken the first humans to royal children and the Self-Sufficient One to their dad who gave them a...let's just say...a garden, a beautiful and wonder-filled place that would make Johnny Depp's mouth water [much better than Never Land.] The children were happy in their garden so long as they obeyed their father who said, “Now children, all of this will forever be yours on one condition. See that door in the wall over there [it was really a portal to another dimension, reality]? Stay away from it. If you open that door you will unleash a catastrophe you cannot hope to control or understand.” Then he handed them the all-powerful key to the kingdom and told them that whoever possessed the key, ruled the kingdom and so long as they did not unlock the door their kingdom was secure. For a while the children were happy in their kingdom, but then one day a charming and beguiling stranger strolled into the kingdom. He told them fascinating tales of what lay beyond the wall.

    At first they told him that the king had told them to stay away from that door in the wall, but day after day he came and he flattered them and he told of great adventures in a world so foreign they couldn’t even begin to imagine it and they both had big imaginations. Sometimes he slipped in subtle, jibing remarks about their father. Sometimes he made innuendos that their father was unfair. At first, they called him on these, but he had a way of making them feel ignorant, like there was a hidden truth, a hidden knowledge, that they didn’t possess. He made it appear that he had wisdom beyond their own, because he had been on the other side of the wall. They became accustomed to the stranger and listened to him like one listens to the tales of a seasoned traveler. Then one day the stranger saw one of the children alone and said to her, “Don’t you want to see what’s on the other side of the wall? Don’t you want to explore the wondrous world beyond?”

    “Oh, no,” she said. “Our father told us to stay away from the door. He says that something horrible will happen if we open the door.” Then the stranger said to her, “Really? Don’t you get it by now? Your father lies to you. He doesn’t want you to open the door because he knows that the second you open that door you will have knowledge of all things. You will be equal to him and he’s been keeping that from you.” Was it true? She wondered. Was her father, the king, deliberately keeping something from her? This stranger convinced her that she wasn’t good enough the way she was. He convinced her that she was “missing” something and needed to make herself better by opening that door.

    So she said, “Okay, I want to see the other side of the door, but I don’t have the key to give to you.” So she went and found her companion and told him that she had been talking to the stranger and that she had decided that she believed him and that their father had been lying to them. Upon hearing this, the prince, too, decided that he needed to open the door. Together they returned to the stranger and the prince handed the key to the stranger so that he could open the door for them. The stranger did and the moment he did, darkness and disease, despair, anger, depression, agony and a total lack of power rushed in on the kingdom. The children found themselves stripped of their former powers. They discovered that they were weak, hungry and exposed. And worse, they were wearing shackles. They had gone from royalty to slavery. The stranger laughed and danced around. He mocked them and commanded them to do whatever he wanted them to do and they had no choice but to obey as his many goons had swarmed over their beautiful garden, forcing them to obey him. The children realized that their father had been telling them the truth all along. If only they had never listened to the stranger in the first place, but he had been so sweet, so inviting. Too late, they realized they had been tricked into giving away their world and to selling all their descendants into slavery.

    Of course, you recognize this as a modernization of the telling of a Garden of Eden/Pandora’s Box type of saga. No one really knows exactly how it all went down, but that is pretty much the gist of it. So, it goes that this world was cast into a physical dimension, bound by physical rules. But the story doesn’t end there. The Creator then came to his children and told them what they had unleashed. When he told them that from dust they had come and to dust they would, he wasn’t being insensitive or judgmental, he was merely stating the consequences of being enslaved to Beautiful One’s rule and informing them of the nature of Beautiful One’s kingdom. He was informing them of the consequences to breaking spiritual laws. He had told them before they opened the door, but now that it was open, they began to understand. There are consequences to breaking spiritual laws in the same way that there are consequences to breaking natural laws. If you step in front of a train, your physical body will be splattered and mutilated. The train is not evil. Inertia is not evil. If you step in front of a train, you get killed...that's just how it is. However, if we truly are spiritual beings, inhabiting a temporal physical shell, then the laws of the physical universe are temporal while spiritual laws know no ending.

    The Self-Sufficient One basically told them that they’d sold themselves into slavery. But then he told them to hang in there, that he knew such a thing was possible and had made a contingency plan even before they took their first breath. (see, humanity was unaware of the deal he had made with Beautiful One, the deal in which they would be the grand prize.) It seems that the Self-Sufficient One was being cruel to his creation and being uncaring, but nothing could be further from the truth. He had devised a plan on how to free his new creatures from slavery while simultaneously teaching Beautiful One the lesson he kept refusing to learn.

    He would always be a step ahead of his creations, because he had made them…all of them, even the Beautiful One. It’s like an author always being a step ahead of the characters in her book. She knows what they will do before they know what they will do but to the characters in the story, they think they have free will [if characters were alive and who’s to say they’re not, in some way we can’t measure yet? It’s a thought anyway.]

    Although Self-Sufficient One created all things, one of his spiritual laws was that he would NOT make decisions for his creations nor would he force them or deceive them in anyway. The world as we know it is a result of the choices of humanity, not a punishment from The Self-Sufficient One. The world suffers chaos because someone handed the key to the door over to the malevolent stranger. The Self-Sufficient One went on to tell the humans to trust him, that he has it all planned out. He tells them they will be bound to time, but to him time is well, kind of like a tiny bubble he could hold in his hands if he were to have hands.
    Remember his deal with Beautiful One? If Beautiful One can get every human being on the planet to believe him and not The Self-Sufficient One within a given amount of time [time was created for Beautiful One and is limited] then The Self-Sufficient One will step back and let him be the supreme authority over all and humanity will become eternal slaves to a self-serving being who disdains us and believes that The Self-Sufficient One is unfair. The Self-Sufficient One could have just imprisoned Beautiful One in some sort of spiritual confinement but in his mercy, he gave him “time” to see the error of his ways and change his mind. He created TIME for the sake of Beautiful One, but of course Beautiful One didn’t do that and eventually, “time will be no more.” At the beginning of the whole saga The Self-Sufficient One had laid down one important ground rule…Beautiful One is allowed to lie, destroy, twist, deceive, etc…anything to make people doubt The Self-Sufficient One. While seemingly horrid things happen in the physical realm, Beautiful One stands back and rejoices each time someone blames Self-Sufficient One, thinking that each person he deceives is another stepping stone to achieving his desired goal.

    But The Self-Sufficient One was bound by the truth, and he had from the get-go, devised a way to free humanity and still remain within the limits of the laws of the spiritual universe, a way which did not violate his agreement with Beautiful One and which did not cause him to lie. The Self-Sufficient One is bound by his own rules and his main rule is that he cannot lie. Yet, out of pure love and compassion he found a way to make sure that Beautiful One would be defeated before the game ever actually got under way [as an artist I get this. I love some of my creations so deeply that I would go to great lengths to save them if they were in danger of falling into the hands of a thief. I don’t love them because they are possessions, but because they are creations and I think the ultimate example is a parent who loves a child.]
    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    So, the humans had been tricked into giving up their world and all of a sudden they were under Beautiful One’s rule. Sickness came into the world. Natural disasters came. Murder came. Exploitation came, evey adverse thing imaginable came. All of these were devices that the Beautiful One was allowed to use to convince the humans that either there was no Self-Sufficient One or that he didn’t care or that he couldn’t be trusted, for if the Self-Sufficient One was real and he loved them, how could he stand by and let these things happen?

    Beautiful One would do everything in his power to make the humans believe that the here and the now was all that mattered and if he couldn’t do that, then he would convince them that they had to sacrifice each other and themselves to please the Self-Sufficient One. He had entire cultures putting people on altars and tearing out their hearts. He had people killing each other in the name of religion, beheading one another, burning one another at the stake, throwing each other in prison and all the while, he laughed because after a few centuries of this they would begin to hate the Self-Sufficient One. But the Self-Sufficient wasn’t shaken. He wrote the book, so to speak, and he knew the beginning of the story, the ending of the story and the all in between.

    So, as Self-Sufficient One held the dimension bound by time and space in his hand he pinpointed a spot in time and a location and he implemented his plan. Remember that the Beautiful One wanted to be equal to or above the Self-Sufficient One but the Self-Sufficient One could not unmake him because he had already been made, thereby breaking a rule of the spiritual universe? But humans had the power of pro-creation and the Self-Sufficient One had planned all along to use that power to level the playing field in favor or the humans. Here’s what he did. He introduced another species into the game, the cosmic battle, a second Adam, so to speak. I’ll borrow the biblical term and call this new creature Second Adam.

    See the first Adam had been a brand new species, so The Self-Sufficient One decided to give a third type of being a chance to enter the game, but the only way to truly level the playing field was to make this new creation the most unique creation of all. This being would have all the frailties of humanity so that, by the rules, he would have the “right” to enter a dimension controlled by Beautiful One, because the rule was that the Self-Sufficient One could not use his powers to persuade them of anything. Only a human could persuade other humans and only humans could have the right to enter the playing field and the humans had the deck stacked against them, because everything else seemed "unfair" to the Beautiful One. He was pretty cocky in that he thought the Self-Sufficient One was allowing him to play a one-sided game. In every way that defines humanity, the second Adam was human. He knew hunger, thirst, fatigue, pain, emotions, he even had a human personality to contend with, etc. BUT on the other hand, he was NOT a creation of The Self-Sufficient One, not a breathed spirit, like Adam and not an Elohim. No, he was what I can only call a The Self-Sufficient One’s-clone. I know that’s a funny term, but basically that’s what he was. He chose a human to be a surrogate mother to her own maker and he did for the humans what he could not do for the Elohim, he devised a way to make one of them equal to himself, but as before, it was to start with just one being and just as humans could be born into the physical world as physical beings via procreation, they could also be transformed into spiritual beings. The coming of the second Adam signaled this. Second Adam wasn't meant to stay on the earth. He was meant only to come and make known to humanity that there was a transforming power, a power that was theirs for the asking, for the taking and all they had to do to recieve was to believe that the Self-Sufficient One was offering and then to accept it.

    Meanwhile, in the realm of time and physical laws, here on earth, while awaiting the arrival of this second Adam, there were people who chose to believe the Self-Sufficient One, people who somehow strayed close enough to the edge of physical reality to hear voices from the spiritual one and these people spoke to The Self-Sufficient One. They were called prophets, seers, oracles, people who could hear from the spiritual realm. Self-Sufficient One sent words through his prophets that he was about to undo all that Beautiful One had done, that he was about to “buy back” or redeem humanity’s place as overseers of the world and he was looking for someone he could trust to deliver the package to the rest of the planet, a most brilliant plan. Just as Beautiful One used a woman to deliver his plan, The Self-Sufficient One was using a woman to deliver his.

    Now I don’t pretend to understand the process by which this second Adam became The Self-Sufficient One incarnate but I get the gist of it. Because he was in a flesh body, he had a right to be here and because the spirit inhabiting that flesh body was the Self-Sufficient One, making him equal with The Self-Sufficient One, he had the authority to make the challenge and because he was a whole new species, he didn’t violate any aspects of the agreement. Let's just say that the Beautiful One never saw it coming. He couldn't even imagine that the Self-Sufficient One would make a human body, put himself in it and come down to the playing field. It was a concept so foreign to him that he just couldn't imagine it. Because remember, even though Self-Sufficient One made the Beautiful One, he did not possess the tremendous power of creation himself and he could not be equal to his maker, but this new species, this new speicies was so fragile, yet so capable of becoming everything he had ever wanted to be and he hated, with an intense passion--he hated, this new speicies. He was a great cosmic entity with immense powers of his own, but like a spoiled older brother getting a new baby in the family, he was jealous and he wanted to inflict pain on that new baby.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    As far as those around him were concerned, the Second Adam made some pretty bold and odd statements. He told them things that sounded something like this, “I am a new species. I am your creator, wrapped in flesh. I exist inside and outside of time. I am my own father and because I am, my father and I are one. If you have me then you have my father and if you believe me then my father is your father and you and I are one and the essence or rather living spirit of who we are will come in you and take up residence in you.” He was telling them that the spirit or the essence of who and what he was transcended, time, flesh, space and the laws of the physical universe. He was telling them that they could become the same species as he was if they would only believe what he was telling them. He demonstrated the truth of his statements by doing things that were impossible to do within the realm of the physical laws of the universe and he told them, “These things you see me do, you shall do and greater things than these you will do, if you believe me and if you believe on the one who sent me.” Of course, the one who sent him was himself, only in another form. I guess we could say the Creator kind of cloned himself in a spiritual way and put that spiritual being into a temporal body and now this being was telling others that they could become just like him, if they believed he was telling the truth. He had the power to open their spiritual eyes, so to speak, and let them understand things that even the most educated and well-trained, the most logical and intelligent of all human minds, couldn’t grasp because they were limited. He never asked them to keep rules and regulations. He never asked them to perform rituals or make animal sacrafices. He never asked them to mark their bodies or go through initiation passages. He asked them only to believe. He said, “This is the way. Walk in it.”

    I know I’m repeating myself a bit here, but I really want to emphasize the types of things he taught them. He told them, “As I am so shall you be in this world. I have become like you so that you may become like me. I give you power over all the power of your enemy [he was referring to the Beautiful One who desired to enslave humanity]. The person who believes me will know the truth and the truth will set you free.” He would say things like, “If you will listen to me and believe me I can give you what the father has given me and this gift of Self-Sufficient One-likeness, this indwelling energy [spirit] from the spirit realm which will transform you into a new creation and you will no longer be of this world, but you will be like me. And to everyone who receives me, I will give you a power that will transform you and restore to you what has been lost. You will no longer be slaves to Beautiful One but rather my very own siblings. Listen to me, believe me and you will become LIKE me. I have the power to make you one of me, but I won’t force it on you. I can’t force it on you. That’s against the rules. You have to BELIEVE me, that I am who I say I am, then just as I have the Spirit of The Self-Sufficient One living in my mortal body, so shall you. The Self-Sufficient One will become your father and that will give you power over Beautiful One in your life until all things are restored to their original state and humanity once again gets the earth. In order to do this, you must not listen to the human nature that is in you because it is in BONDAGE to the current The Self-Sufficient One of this world, but you must be meek and allow the spirit of The Self-Sufficient One to inhabit your mortal bodies....More to come
    Quote Originally Posted by Ene View Post
    Now as the first Adams had given their world over the Beautiful One, they had no more control of it and could not regain it, therefore Self-Sufficient One saw fit to transform them into new creations via sending the Second Adam who could transform any who chose to be transformed. See, untransformed descendants of the first Adam could not rule the earth as that broke the spiritual law.

    While believing the Second Adam’s words could make humans “like him” it didn’t totally negate the constant presence of one’s “carnal nature” or the nature that was once in slavery to Beautiful One. To negate that nature a person had to consciously realize it was there and renew it by renewing the way they thought. In some circles, that came to be called repentance, but repentence had nothing to do with emotion, but rather a changing of one's view point in regards to any subject. For example, a man may make a bad investment and loose a lot of money. Later, he may say, "I repent of that decision. It wasn't a good idea and I'm going to invest in that again."

    Only religion made people “sin conscious,” meaning it made them believe that they had to DO something to set things right, but Second Adam repeatedly told them there was nothing they could do, except believe that the Self-Sufficient One had already taken care of the problem, that he had a plan and that his plan was already working. He told them repeatedly that religion was useless as a mean to become spiritual or to attain anything divine whatsoever. Not only that, like Beautiful One, religion made people into slaves. Therefore, Beautiful One absolutely loved religion. It was a wonderful tool of enslavement.

    So, the Second Adam was essentially The Self-Sufficient One in human form. He was completely human in that he had a human body and a human personality and a human family, but he was also completely eternal and in so being he was an entirely new entity and he had come to make “more” of himself. However, he still needed to do one thing and that was to live through a human lifespan, allow the Beautiful One to lie to him as he did to all humans, allow him to try to deceive him and talk him into doubting his father. If he could do this, then by spiritual law, he could effectively “take back” all that the first Adam had been tricked out of. Now the Beautiful One was furious with this “human” who could not be tricked or deceived, of this one who went around telling people what the Self-Sufficient One was really like. They could not hear the truth, because if they heard the truth and believed the truth then he would never be able to convince them all that his ways were the best ways. So, he decided to shut that Second Adam up and arranged for his death. He manipulated other humans, those still in slavery to him, into killing this guy. And he rejoiced while the deed was being plotted and carried out, but the instant it was done, he wailed. Because in that instant he realized what the Self-Sufficient One had done and he realized that once again, he had failed. The Second Adam actually freed those who had been enslaved by the Beautiful One through the ages and yet had already exited their mortal bodie. Still, the Self-Sufficient One would not go back on his word and promised to give him the original amount of allotted days and in those allotted days the Beautiful One could go about trying his best to con people into believing him, but those who had been transformed into new creations by accepting the transformation offered to them by the Second Adam could also go about speaking what they had seen. Self-Sufficient One had appointed a “time” when “time” should end or rather, when there should be an end to time as it is understood in the physical universe. So, long as one human being upon the earth believes the words of the Self-Sufficient One, so long as one human being is transformed from the kingdom of slavery into the kingdom of freedom, the Beautiful One knows he has lost.

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    God in the psyche

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite Bubble View Post
    Some thoughts I've had about how the nature of God may possibly present itself within our psyche. I was thinking particularly of the way the concept emerges in times of need (“there are no atheists in foxholes”), and continuation of it due to security and fears revolving around that.

    God fills an emotional role when humans feel backed into a corner. Their conscious or subconscious longing for help within their situation transforms the concept into a sentient being capable of understanding and with the ability to help. Humans’ instinct for safety and desire of easily of getting through difficulties gives God the powers it is known to have, which are usually incredibly idealistic. At such a point where the human asks for Gods help, the instinct is pushed to the limit, and so wants help with no effort on their part, because at this point they feel helpless. God is a form of idealism that means that not only is our desire for security fulfilled, but also that there is an objective reason for existence; because the fact there really isn’t one unsettles us from our need to know why things happen (evolutionary survival trait).

    This “God effect” is a concept routed into the subconscious. The experience explained above would in fact dictate action towards securing back equilibrium, but this is not on Gods part. The subconscious often takes up action to subtly gain the individuals desire, in a minute way. This comes quickly or slowly, depending on the individuals mind. The Placebo effect sometimes takes a role in this, particularly with prayers. Action is taking in the physical realm, subconsciously, to solve the problem. The end result is usually attributed to God (if the subject is believer).

    The concept of God itself comes from an astute awareness gained from intellect that we have been created and are in existence. Reality in human perception dictates that we follow the laws of cause and effect, and with the habit of anthropomorphising, together make up a view that something akin to ourselves (which is essentially what many conceptions of Gods are – an all-powerful superhuman) must have created the universe. We are, after all, creative beings ourselves.

    Do you believe this explanation has some merit? And finally: have you personally been in a situation, in which you may have been thrown out of atheism/agnosticism (if you were either to begin with) because of its severity, or perhaps you at least began to hope that God might help? And if you believe in God, what train of thought in particular has led you to believe of its existence?

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    off topic

    @Poimandres

    I read your over the top writing and wondered if you were an sx/so like me, and sure enough its in your description. cool.

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